SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 14 Discussion - Barry Lyndon

[Bullitt68]

But if that was true then you would be wearing a Fury Road t-shirt by now!

A couple of weeks ago I was thinking about rewatching it and posting a "Take Two" response but then I got too busy with my own shit. At some point, though, I'm going to take that movie for another ride. I just hope the fallout the second time around isn't quite so catastrophic

I find the cold and uncaring persona that Kubrick has been given in popular culture rather intresting [...] I find that personality rather hard to reconcille [...] Hell, I even remember one article where someone said that while visiting Kubrick's english manor, Kubrick would allow children to play in his office while he worked there.

It's definitely strange. He was meticulous, to the point of being pathologically exacting (in A Life in Pictures, there's that hilarious scene where they talk about his insanely long and precise details for anyone taking care of his cats ), but that to me has always indicated the extreme depths of his care rather than his inability to care. For anything that he cared about, he put in absolutely everything he had, and that applied equally to his family as it did to his films.

Even though I'm not exactly a fan of the man, Spielberg has always been one of the most perceptive of Kubrick fans (no doubt a result of their longtime correspondence and eventually friendship) and I've always loved the way he described Lolita*:



Kubrick definitely goes deeper into the humanity of Humbert than Nabokov was interested in doing, and the point to be made is that that's by no means an anomaly. Anyone who has seen the end of Paths of Glory, the scenes with Kirk Douglas and Jean Simmons in Spartacus, the scene with Humbert and Lolita when he promises never to leave her, the Barry Lyndon scene I kept bringing up, the end of Full Metal Jacket, or the fucking entirety of Eyes Wide Shut - anyone who has watched those films and sees "cold" and "uncaring" is just fucking blind.

*I time-stamped that clip from that documentary for relevance, but to anyone else reading this, if you're interested in Kubrick but haven't seen that documentary, stop whatever you're doing and watch it now. It's fantastic.

This gif has always been an Internet highlight for me. It's just brilliant.

 

[europe1]

This gif has always been an Internet highlight for me. It's just brilliant.

Makes me giggle every time.

 

[Guestx]

The war story... I had the impression that it was another tall tale told by Barry. It reminded me of him pretending to be Captain Fake-man, and all the tall tales and deception he told to get into the good graces of Captain Potzdorf, who in turn got him in touch with a true con man, Chevalier du Balibari.

Barry is a con man, and I think he cried because he realized how his BS caught up with him, as the one thing his dying child was most proud of him for (cutting off 19 heads?) was a fabrication of his, like everything else, and the kid loved it because he was just like him in a way, and would die because of that tenacious nature and horrible luck. Whereas Barry flourished because of that and his incredible luck.

The fact that his child was just as resourceful and deceitful and tenacious as he was (noticing the cooks talk, getting them to tell him about the horse, blatantly lying to his parents and disobeying them and impulsively stealing the horse), made it all too clear in that moment that little Bryan was truly his father's son, and that hit too close to home. Just tragic.

It all went downhill when he began to believe the lie that he deserved his noble life and listened to his mom go on about getting a lordship. Needing legitimacy was his undoing. He was best in the shadows and with seduction. Ironically, he was the one who was taken in by the larger con of buying into royalty.

Showing Bully his true nature was also a mistake.

Young Bully must have reminded Barry of when Captain Potzdorf exposed him for his true self. But instead of smoothing things over with the little tyke, he must have had a flashback of being whipped through the gauntlet and had to revert to some twisted kind of payback for the whippings he must have endured under Potzdorf's reign, quite oddly.

Glad to see that you were able to get to Barry Lyndon. Excellent work.

One thing I'm not seeing in your response here is how you liked the movie. Rating?

 

[Scott Parker 27]

If that's what everyone wants to go then I'm okay with it. And I guess since the only two people who have chimed in are in the PRO camp then let's go ahead and do it.

So I missed something, how was Barry taken into the army? Was he turned in by the robbers on his way to Dublin?

 

[Guestx]

So I missed something, how was Barry taken into the army? Was he turned in by the robbers on his way to Dublin?

Which time?

He joined the British army after being recruited in the little town where the officer was giving the big speech promising gold, glory and the possibility of becoming a gentleman.

He joined the Prussian army after the Prussian officer realized Barry was lying his ass off and basically gave him the choice to enlist or go to prison.

 

[Guestx]

Even though I'm not exactly a fan of the man, Spielberg has always been one of the most perceptive of Kubrick fans. . .

Why no love for Spielberg?

 

[gorgonon]

Glad to see that you were able to get to Barry Lyndon. Excellent work.

One thing I'm not seeing in your response here is how you liked the movie. Rating?

I'd give it a 7.5/10. Had really great moments, felt like it unfurled slowly like a great symphony of the eyes or a nightly winter reading of Dead Souls by Nicholai Gogol, which was partly due to the background harpsichord of a score, it basically simulated an ongoing anticipation, it was so good during the second half of the film.

Also, because of the lushness and timescale, I feel repeated viewings would be even better, to see Barry's emotional development more clearly as others have made me consider (for instance, how the death of his child changed him during the dueling pistols). Alot of these posts have helped greatly and will go back with a better eye next time. I anticipate this may be in the high 8 range after a year or so.

Some films age like fine wine through seasonal viewings. As things change in your life, so do the way a great film will be viewed differently and have a keener impact later on in life. It may not do so the first time around, but no need to rush, imo.

As for now, it never got me to the point of emotional engagement. Felt the comeuppance of Barry and all, just wasn't attached to the characters as I feel with films I really like.

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

The one scene I really enjoyed was the final duel scene, THAT looked like an amazing painting. I mean the whole movie was amazing visually, but that scene was my favorite, I think.

 

[Scott Parker 27]

Which time?

He joined the British army after being recruited in the little town where the officer was giving the big speech promising gold, glory and the possibility of becoming a gentleman.

He joined the Prussian army after the Prussian officer realized Barry was lying his ass off and basically gave him the choice to enlist or go to prison.

Ah, the first time, thank you. Im right in the middle of watching but I must have missed that part.

 

[Guestx]

I'd give it a 7.5/10. Had really great moments, felt like it unfurled slowly like a great symphony of the eyes or a nightly winter reading of Dead Souls by Nicholai Gogol, which was partly due to the background harpsichord of a score, it basically simulated an ongoing anticipation, it was so good during the second half of the film.

Also, because of the lushness and timescale, I feel repeated viewings would be even better, to see Barry's emotional development more clearly as others have made me consider (for instance, how the death of his child changed him during the dueling pistols). Alot of these posts have helped greatly and will go back with a better eye next time. I anticipate this may be in the high 8 range after a year or so.

Some films age like fine wine through seasonal viewings. As things change in your life, so do the way a great film will be viewed differently and have a keener impact later on in life. It may not do so the first time around, but no need to rush, imo.

As for now, it never got me to the point of emotional engagement. Felt the comeuppance of Barry and all, just wasn't attached to the characters as I feel with films I really like.

Indeed. That's consistent with some comments I've seen made by other people. I believe @BisexualMMA made some similar comments on not being emotionally engaged with the characters, or maybe that's another movie I'm thinking of.

For me, personally, I have had to take a few days to process it. Sometimes I find that I have to throw my expectations away and meet a film on its own terms. If you look at my review on the first page, I talk a lot about what I WANTED from the film and how I was disappointed that it didn't give that to me. Sometimes when this happens if I take some time to think about it then a film will grow on me and I'll come to accept it for what it is rather than for what I want it to be. I suspect that will happen with Barry Lyndon.

 

[Guestx]

Ah, the first time, thank you. Im right in the middle of watching but I must have missed that part.

Yeah, right after Barry gets robbed he makes his way to a little village where a recruiter is giving a big speech. Realizing that without any money or a horse he's pretty well fucked he joins up.

This is a movie you have to keep a close eye on or you'll miss some important details.

 

[Guestx]

The one scene I really enjoyed was the final duel scene, THAT looked like an amazing painting. I mean the whole movie was amazing visually, but that scene was my favorite, I think.

Glad to hear you actually finished it. When we didn't get a Part II of your write up I was wondering if you had.

Overall thoughts on the film now that you've finished it? Rating?

 

[gorgonon]

Indeed. That's consistent with some comments I've seen made by other people. I believe @BisexualMMA made some similar comments on not being emotionally engaged with the characters, or maybe that's another movie I'm thinking of.

For me, personally, I have had to take a few days to process it. Sometimes I find that I have to throw a my expectations away and meet a film on its own terms. If you look at my review on the first page, I talk a lot about what I WANTED from the film and how I was disappointed that it didn't give that to me. Sometimes when this happens if I take some time to think about it then a film will grow on me and I'll come to accept it for what it is rather than for what I want it to be. I suspect that will happen with Barry Lyndon.

So true, I have that tendency, too, and I fear I may have judged Barry Lyndon that same way. Now, with what I've learned in the club, I know to keep an open mind and revisit stuff that seemed difficult or boring and realize that it may just be complex or have it's own brilliance that I haven't understood fully yet.

Reading why other people like it, the background and research, and also the questions that come up in discussions has helped greatly, too. I'm not as judgmental as I was before, I'm noticing. I do fully expect the score to rise next viewing, I just have to be honest about where I am right now.

 

[Guestx]

Interesting little article on the controversy surrounding Barry Lyndon's Blu-Ray release:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/barry-lyndon-aspect-ratio/

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

Glad to hear you actually finished it. When we didn't get a Part II of your write up I was wondering if you had.

Overall thoughts on the film now that you've finished it? Rating?

Oh yeah, I finished it last night, I just didn't want to continue the write-up when I felt it would be similar thematically, I would just be repeating myself.

Like @gorgonon and yourself, I found the movie... I liked parts of it, but I wasn't emotionally engaged with the characters at all and that's obviously what I prefer when watching a film. It was a great movie though, really well done. I felt like there was a lot of truth in it. So, IDK. I enjoyed it. Not sure what I would rate it.

 

[Guestx]

So true, I have that tendency, too, and I fear I may have judged Barry Lyndon that same way. Now, with what I've learned in the club, I know to keep an open mind and revisit stuff that seemed difficult or boring and realize that it may just be complex or have it's own brilliance that I haven't understood fully yet.

Reading why other people like it, the background and research, and also the questions that come up in discussions has helped greatly, too. I'm not as judgmental as I was before, I'm noticing. I do fully expect the score to rise next viewing, I just have to be honest about where I am right now.

I think, for me, the technical aspects--the gorgeous cinematography, the excellent score, the great performances--combined with what I thought was a really good and engaging first half of the film elevate to a pretty substantial height. I just wish that I had enjoyed the second half more.

 

[Guestx]

Oh yeah, I finished it last night, I just didn't want to continue the write-up when I felt it would be similar thematically, I would just be repeating myself.

Like @gorgonon and yourself, I found the movie... I liked parts of it, but I wasn't emotionally engaged with the characters at all and that's obviously what I prefer when watching a film. It was a great movie though, really well done. I felt like there was a lot of truth in it. So, IDK. I enjoyed it. Not sure what I would rate it.

How do you think it compares to other Kubrick films?

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

How do you think it compares to other Kubrick films?

I don't really feel qualified to answer that, lol. I've seen almost all of his movies, I think... but I'm not an expert and I haven't watched any of them recently. All of his movies feel similar to me. I liked what @Bullitt68 posted about his immense care... I always feel like his movies are so carefully crafted, they feel almost too smooth, but it's good, IDK. I feel like he conveys a lot of truth, but it's very intellectual. I don't feel pulled in emotionally. But, IDK, I don't even want to say bc I haven't watched any besides this one in several years. Maybe The Shining really pulled me in, but it was not in the sense that I related to the characters.

I love Aronofsky because he makes characters that make sense to me, that have had similar experiences to my life or that reflect truths I've seen in my life. I saw a lot of truth in Barry Lyndon but it didn't hit me like, 'wow, this is you on screen!' - you know? I don't if I've felt that way about any Kubrick movie.

 

[Guestx]

I don't really feel qualified to answer that, lol. I've seen almost all of his movies, I think... but I'm not an expert and I haven't watched any of them recently. All of his movies feel similar to me. I liked what @Bullitt68 posted about his immense care... I always feel like his movies are so carefully crafted, they feel almost too smooth, but it's good, IDK.

Well it's interesting. I can see why, in some aspects (such as the craftsmanship), you would say that all of Kubrick's movies feel similar. But on the other hand, it's pretty interesting how varied his output is. Compare 2001 to Barry Lyndon to The Shining to Spartacus. All very different movies.

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

^^ edited to include more thoughts.