SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 14 Discussion - Barry Lyndon

I can honestly say, as a massive Kubrick nuthugger, Room 237 made me ashamed to say that I even like Kubrick. I don't remember anything about it except that I spent the entire running time like this:

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Not sure I agree with this. We never see much of the relationship between mother and son except how it relates to Barry. His intense hatred of him was well placed, and even as a little boy he was perceptive enough to see him as a "common opportunist" and that he didn't really love Lady Lyndon. His speech to his mother in the concert recital has not a false word within it, everything he said was true, the only place he's wrong is his classism. Barry treated her badly, she was unhappy at first, and then miserable, inconsolable even, after the death of her son.

Perhaps he does want to own her. Perhaps he would have hated any man she might have married. We can't really know, since he was completely right to hate and distrust Barry. I think any living under her son's thumb for Lady Lyndon is nowhere near as restricting and soul crushing as living under Barry's thumb.

Are you saying she looked so sad when she sees Barry's name because she misses him? I'm not sure that's what you're saying, but if it is I highly doubt it. I think it was more the sad memory of all the misery she lived with because of Barry. Even the memory of the one positive thing from their relationship, their son, is tainted with tragedy.

Perfectly said, and I'm on the same page with you.
 
I can honestly say, as a massive Kubrick nuthugger, Room 237 made me ashamed to say that I even like Kubrick. I don't remember anything about it except that I spent the entire running time like this:

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Well like I said, I think you have to understand what the movie IS. If you read any interviews with the director, he himself says that he doesn't necessarily buy into the theories. But he finds the theorists themselves fascinating. Just look at it as a psychological study on where obsession and a certain kind of mind can lead a person when they watch a movie like The Shining.

The implausibility of some of the ideas presented is, in my opinion, part of the entertainment value. Then again, implausible as they may be, there's also a sort of logical order that a lot of the theories follow that makes a sort of sense.
 
I believe it said the town had been stormed and occupied

"This heart of Lieschen's was like many a neighboring town and had been stormed and occupied several times before Barry came to invest in it."

The heart, like the towns, had been stormed and occupied.
 
I may consider giving the original book a read.
I'd recommend it. Narrative wise it's not too different, but tonally it's almost the opposite at times.

The major difference is that the entire book is written as if it's an autobiography by Redmond Barry himself. All those lines of narration were spoken by Barry, with some altered to suit the change in perspective. Here's a quote from Kubrick

"I believe Thackeray used Redmond Barry to tell his own story in a deliberately distorted way because it made it more interesting. Instead of the omniscient author, Thackeray used the imperfect observer, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say the dishonest observer, thus allowing the reader to judge for himself, with little difficulty, the probable truth in Redmond Barry's view of his life. This technique worked extremely well in the novel but, of course, in a film you have objective reality in front of you all of the time, so the effect of Thackeray's first-person story-teller could not be repeated on the screen. It might have worked as comedy by the juxtaposition of Barry’s version of the truth with the reality on the screen, but I don’t think that Barry Lyndon should have been done as a comedy."

Some of the book was actually laugh out loud funny, and the satire was much more biting. I also found Barry in the book to be way more unlikable, especially after he marries Lady Lyndon. His treatment of her is appalling, much worse than the film depicts, and in general his dishonest character is greatly expanded upon throughout the entire novel. I admit the book is probably affecting how I see the relationship between the two in the film.
 
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I'd recommend it. Narrative wise it's not too different, but tonally it's almost the opposite at times.

The major difference is that the entire book is written as if it's a autobiography by Redmond Barry himself. All those lines of narration were spoken by Barry himself, with some altered to suit the change in perspective. Here's a quote from Kubrick

"I believe Thackeray used Redmond Barry to tell his own story in a deliberately distorted way because it made it more interesting. Instead of the omniscient author, Thackeray used the imperfect observer, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say the dishonest observer, thus allowing the reader to judge for himself, with little difficulty, the probable truth in Redmond Barry's view of his life. This technique worked extremely well in the novel but, of course, in a film you have objective reality in front of you all of the time, so the effect of Thackeray's first-person story-teller could not be repeated on the screen. It might have worked as comedy by the juxtaposition of Barry’s version of the truth with the reality on the screen, but I don’t think that Barry Lyndon should have been done as a comedy."

Some of the book was actually laugh out loud funny, and the satire was much more biting. I also found Barry in the book to be way more unlikable, especially after he marries Lady Lyndon. His treatment of her is appalling, much worse than the film depicts, and in general his dishonest character is greatly expanded upon throughout the entire novel. I admit the book is probably affecting how I see the relationship between the two in the film.

Damn, MORE unlikable? He's already pretty much a dick in the movie so I guess if I read the book I should be prepared to totally hate the guy.
 
Room 237...

I thought the theories were interesting, and they generally found two or three pieces of supporting evidence, but not enough to make me believe it was the main theme in Kubrick's mind while making The Shining.

Kubrick was a clever guy and he wasn't above fucking with people just for the hell of it. He put in the crushed VW beetle just to mess with Stephen King. Surely, he could put the Apollo shirt on the kid just to mess with the Lunar Landing Loons.

Plenty of the stuff I can see as being intentional by Kubrick - I can see the (possibly) minotaur poster linking with the Labyrinth. I think the removal of the Dopey sticker was intentional, given how purposefully attention was drawn to it the first time the door was shown.

The movie wasn't a confession about the moon landing or a thesis about the Native Americans, though.
 
Plenty of the stuff I can see as being intentional by Kubrick - I can see the (possibly) minotaur poster linking with the Labyrinth. I think the removal of the Dopey sticker was intentional, given how purposefully attention was drawn to it the first time the door was shown.

Interesting. I thought the minotaur angle was the MOST ridiculous of them all, mostly just because I don't even think looking at that poster of a skiier can plausibly be linked to a minotaur. I agree on the Dopey sticker, though. It seemed highly suspect that it just disappeared like that.
 
Damn, MORE unlikable? He's already pretty much a dick in the movie so I guess if I read the book I should be prepared to totally hate the guy.
It's weird because it's Barry himself telling you everything he's done, and he is intending to portray himself in a positive light, but it quickly becomes clear that he's a total piece of shit. I was actively trying not to hate him, but it was impossible. There are entire chapters dedicated to his monstrous abuse of his wife and his attempts to control her. Also those few moments in the film that make him seem not so bad are pretty much non-existent if I recall correctly.
 
It's weird because it's Barry himself telling you everything he's done, and he is intending to portray himself in a positive light, but it quickly becomes clear that he's a total piece of shit. I was actively trying not to hate him, but it was impossible. There are entire chapters dedicated to his monstrous abuse of his wife and his attempts to control her. Also those few moments in the film that make him seem not so bad are pretty much non-existent if I recall correctly.

Interesting. Because in the film--even in the second half--he had some redeeming qualities, like his love for his son and that one scene where he apologizes to his wife and, I guess, attempts something of a reconciliation.

As I said in my review earlier, I really WANTED to like the guy. I think I was actually a bit annoyed at Kubrick for not making a movie with a likable protagonist. But that's Kubrick for you: He can't just do a standard Hero's Journey kind of movie with fun times throughout and a happy ending.
 
Interesting. I thought the minotaur angle was the MOST ridiculous of them all, mostly just because I don't even think looking at that poster of a skiier can plausibly be linked to a minotaur. I agree on the Dopey sticker, though. It seemed highly suspect that it just disappeared like that.

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I dunno. To the right of the two girls is another sort of man-hooved-beast combo, and behind and between them is something that looks kind of like a bull's head with its horns.

Anyway, even if Kubrick was alluding to minotaurs and mazes, it's really just a brief moment of set decoration and not much more to it.
 
LOL. I have not, no, and yet even without having seen it I suspect this question is oozing with sarcasm.
Depends on what one would consider fun times and a happy ending.

It's one hell of a movie though. Make sure you watch the unrated version. The R rated cut is a travesty.
 
I've been meaning to watch this since that Kubrick thread a week+ ago.
Will watch.
 
Ok I'm gonna try to do this one right now, IDK if I have the focus for 3 hours or not though and I might be in and out doing some physical therapy but I'll say SOMETHING since @shadow_priest_x is being nice and re-including me
 
Ok I'm gonna try to do this one right now, IDK if I have the focus for 3 hours or not though and I might be in and out doing some physical therapy but I'll say SOMETHING since @shadow_priest_x is being nice and re-including me

Make it happen! Club hasn't been the same without you, the originator of the stream of consciousness review. Often imitated, never duplicated.
 
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