Seated cable row vs bent over row

[joe broadway]

Im under 200 pounds. In fact the reason why I lift is to get bigger and stronger.

= skinny fat

 

[iohc86]

TS - You were told that better lifts to complement the armbar than either cable rows or BORs are Zercher DLs and Power Cleans, and that while cable rows aren't bad, they're not the best choice to have as a main lift. You were also told that you should train your body for strength and then apply that strength to the techniques you've learned. The fact that you chose to ignore this all means you came in here looking for somebody to stroke your ego.

And I suggest you go learn to read. If anyone is stroking his or her ego, it would be you and your ilk. Just because I asked a machine related question does not make me an idiot.

When did I ignore any of the stuff written by the posters here? I stated that I deadlifted occasionally and did good mornings. I also do power snatches and power shrugs but that's another story. I read what everyone in here wrote. So what makes you think im ignoring advice? Im not. Im just asking more questions. To bad for elitists like you, you dont understand this simple fact.

Heres some news to you. This topic was about seated seated cable rows and bent over rows. Not about the other lifts which I may or may not already include in my regime. Really now? Do you guys enjoy finding any excuse to attack me with? Either shut up with the pointless flamebait comment or answer my question.

Oh, and while I think that there's leeway for grammar on teh internets, there/their/they're is really so basic that you need to go back to elementary school if you can't figure it out.

And this has exactly what to do with weightlifting, seated cable rows and bent over rows?

I made a mistake. And it wasn't even that big of a mistake. Big whoop, get over it.

 

[betamin]

Seriously, the armbar has nothing to do with cable rows, in the armbar your chest are glued to your arms and you extend your hips to finish, besides a correct break is not a frontal motion but a side motion in where you fall to the side with the arm close to you; the arms/upper back are used only as bent ropes that have his arm tied to your body allowing it to use its superior strength (wich comes from the hips, so deadlift)

 

[iohc86]

If you ever find yourself trying to overpower your opponent/training partner in jui-jitsu then you're doing it wrong.

There are several counters to armbar defenses (especially when talking about the basic juji gatame with your opponent's back on the mat) which don't require any strength.

Id like to believe that as well. That the smaller fighter is capable of defeating bigger stronger one with technique alone. But thats simply not true for the vast majority of us. Heck, Roycie Gracie was trashed by Matt Hughes on the ground despite having far far superior jits. Hughes even broke his arm with an americana.

Ive personally stopped submission attempts by weaker opponents with strength alone. And ive also powered submissions on weaker opponents. On the inverse ive also experienced bigger stronger wrestlers gaining full mount on me with strength alone. The reason why im so interested in the armbar is because its my favorite submission. And ive forced it onto weaker opponents many times.

as for the actual topic...it seems like you are going to do seated cable rows no matter what advice you get and just wanted people to stroke your e-peen.

Generally when you have to movements which work the same muscles, but one is a machine, the free weight movement is better. As for the additional erector spinae work from seated cable rows you keep harping on...do deadlifts

What a load of crap. This topic was about seated cable rows vs bent over rows. Not deadlifts, not olympic lifting, not pink dumbbell curls and what not. I wanted a comparison between the two. Instead all I got was.... well you know.

This. And the fact that BORs are harder for me is why I do them.

The flaming in here isn't necessary but that's just the way it is. Breezer is like this. I would advice you to just get to know the personalities around here if you want to stick around.

This is my final reply for this topic and im never ever visiting this board again. Ive asked a few questions here in the past and each and every time someone attacked me for no reason. I dont know if its the roid rage, elitism, superiority complex, or the belief that they can bench 2000 pounds on the internet. Regardless im never visiting this place again.

 

[flak]

Is their a point in doing bent over rows? The seated cable row targets the exact same muscles as the bent over row with the addition of the erector spinae. Making it a superior compound exercise right?

The seated cable row seems to be the more functional exercise. It mimics the pulling motion of an armbar.

Let's back up.

iohc86, what makes you think BORs don't work the erector spinae? My take -- in both exercises, the erector spinae must be tense to keep the torso stable.

What makes you think the seated cable row mimics the pulling motion of an armbar more closely than a BOR? I'll grant you, in a seated cable row you're in a sitting position, but your feet are braced, you don't lean back more than maybe 30 degrees from vertical, and the handles don't bear much resemblance to a human arm.

Also, there must be other horizontal pulling actions you need to perform in BJJ besides executing an armbar, right? Even if the seated cable row was irrefutably a better option than BORs as far as improving your armbar, would that automatically make the seated cable row a better option for BJJ practitioners?

For what it's worth, I think it's more important that you do a rowing exercise than the exact form it takes. If you're convinced that seated cable rows are your best option, then keep doing 'em.

 

[enright3060]

This thread is full of fail.

 

[hosed49]

Picturing a guy at the gym, low cable row set up, pulling back on the cable then wrapping his legs around the cable mimicking an armbar... How many reps do you consider effective for that movement? Do you use a rope for this movement to mimick two hand grip on the arm? Is he lying all the way back taking the use of your back out of the movement all together? Visualize this and ponder...is a cable row an effective supplementary exercise for grabbing someones arm and pulling off an armbar?

 

[zop]

Iohc, the BOR uses more muscle groups than a seated cable row.

The erector spinae are worked during a BOR to a much greater extent then during a seated cable row. Your thinking is that during the pull part of a seated cable row the person sits back thus utilizing the erector spinae. All they are really using is the leverage of setting down and their feet against pads.

During a barbell BOR the erector spinae are used to a much greater extent to keep the back in proper position. If the erector spinae we're not used your face would be against the floor. A barbell BOR also requires proper scapula positioning to stabilize the bar. In other words to effecientlly pull a bar up and down in a vertical motion bent over the scapula needs to be in the right position. This is completely absent during the cable row because stabilization is not required at all.

 

[enright3060]

The only way you can think that cable rows are teh best ever and will help your arm bar is under the following conditions:

1) You are really weak;
2) You know nothing about strength training; and
3) You know nothing about BJJ

 

[Chaos Mitten**]

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Well lets see...as John pointed out, you completely ignored my point and just chose to repeat the same shit....well if u believe that lifting with cable rows will give you better results then do it.

BOR/Cable Rows=upper back strength so if you choose to use considerable lower back involvement then you're partially defeating the purpose of these exercises. If you want more lower back involvement then do dynamic rows which will allow for greater loads than cable rows. If you really want to train the lower back then you may as well do deadlifts, GMs, hypers, glute/ham, etc. Again for the slow kids in the room, you do not want to mimick technique movements while lifting weights. This is why boxers dont punch with progressively heavier weights or at all. Instead they develop knockout strength and power with heavy compound lifts and plyometric exercises then apply s/p to their skills training. As pointed out by others, if you want to be great at submission defense then you're better off wrestling with a partner, perfecting your game. Trying to power out of submissions is stupid and will get you injured.

Cable rows are good, useful, and should be part of your training arsenal however they are not superior to BORs and definitely not for the reasons you have offered.

Whether you come or dont come to this board doesnt affect us one way or another. This board tends to weed out trolls and people unable to listen to logic or proof. I would also think that you have enough sense not to get affected by insults by random people online, many of whom are teens.

 

[Prokofievian]

No, it only makes him a hypocrite and a troll. I asked a question. He replied by correcting my grammar. He then later called me argumentative and a troll for asking said question. Which is beyond idiotic on his part. If you don't like my question, don't answer it. Whats so difficult for the hypocrites to understand? They started this pointless argument. All I wanted was some insight. Not a bunch of internet tough guys attacking me for something so pointless as a question.

You're fucking dumb.

Now, in response to your BOR vs Cable row point:

There are enough reasons in this thread to support BOR over the cable row, from a strength perspective.

As for your erector spinae point, in what way is the ES not activated in its anatomical function in a BOR?

This being said, people in this thread have also said that the cable-row is the least bad of the machine movements. If you want to use it to do some body-building type assistance work, that is just fine. But if you've read everything in this thread, and still believe that the seated cable row is superior to the BOR from a strength perspective, then just go right ahead, and cable-row to your heart's content. I'm sure that Devil'sSon and Enright and all the other really strong motherfuckers in here really couldn't be bothered less by it.

 

[Saith]

erector spinae(main deadlift muscle

Are you fucked?

 

[bacon]

 

[SteveX]

this pic reminds me of DW

 

[Saith]

Heres some news to you. This topic was about seated seated cable rows and bent over rows. Not about the other lifts which I may or may not already include in my regime. Really now?

In that case, no, no single exercise is going to improve your grappling. Only a comprehensive training program involving general strengthening, conditioning, and skill training will do that.

 

[bacon]

this pic reminds me of DW

I lol'd.

 

[joe broadway]

In that case, no, no single exercise is going to improve your grappling. Only a comprehensive training program involving general strengthening, conditioning, and skill training will do that.

^^^this guy is a troll

 

[SocraticMethod]

Upright KB rows with one foot on a bosu ball are the best way to work the Jiu Jitsu Muscles. This is even more common knowledge than they're/there/their, but not quite so common as effect/affect.

In conclusion, good grammar is hot.

 

[anaconda]

TS you should start doing hamstring curls to improve your triangles too.

Curls are not good for escaping armbars, but for applying RNC.

Seriously, TS doesnt understand the first thing about armbars or strength training.