Ryan Hall doesn't believe in guard or shrimping...

[KILL KILL]

Well he was an engineer major before going into BJJ.

I started bjj at Lloyd irvin's a few years ago. Ryan and Seph Smith acyually taught the bulk of the classes I went to. The way he breaks bjj down is amazing. He has an understanding of jiu-jitsu that most of us will never attain

 

[Drew Foster]

ryan hall's garbage. yeah he wins, but he doesn't do jiu jitsu. i dont know what the fuck it is (wrapping your hand up with layers upon layers of tape and heel hooking people) but its not jiu jitsu.

Hater.

Ryan won 3rd at the ADCC. It's time now that he's seperated from Lloyd Irvin that he find his own influences. He's obviously looking to Roger, Marcelo, and Cobrinha, etc. as guys to emulate. He wants to be an even more successful competitor, and he's making all the right moves to do so.

I've only seen him tape his hands recently, and I've never seen him heelhook someone with tape on his hands... not that it would matter.

To say Hall doesn't do JiuJitsu is pure jealousy.

 

[Doughbelly]

ryan hall's garbage. yeah he wins, but he doesn't do jiu jitsu. i dont know what the fuck it is (wrapping your hand up with layers upon layers of tape and heel hooking people) but its not jiu jitsu.

LOL. Something I find amusing is how much BJJ's development in context parallel's judo's, only in fast forward. An art that has really only existed and developed for 15 years in North America and there are ALREADY traditionalists. 15 years ago, Relson was still teaching out of his garage there was no such thing as a BJJ gi in the states. Shit, I remember being given an old school Krugans gi (with the old flying viking patches) around that time and people were like WTF is that? It hasn't even been two full decades and you got people going "that isn't BJJ!" despite the fact the dude is submitting people and winning in competition. Sounds exactly like judo when the Russians happened.

 

[knoxpk]

As has been said in this thread before, I dont want to speak FOR ryan and mess up his thoughts and ideas, but as far as the straightforward questions Im happy to tell you.

Yes, in the advanced and team classes and as well as open mats takedowns are trained a lot. There is also a wrestling class and the wrestling coach trains at all the jiu jitsu classes, and is always happy to answer questions or work one on one on something. Ryan and Seph encourage this as much as possible.

The takedowns are mainly trained in the wrestling classes and ground stuff is mostly trained in the jiu jitsu classes, however we are shown a variety of trouble shooting/finishes for takedowns and sweeps as they are related to the task at hand in the jiu jitsu classes. As you can imagine, some sweeps end very similar to takedowns so sometimes they can overlap.

Generally people start from the knees as an issue of space and safety however people working specific stuff do stand, and especially more so as people start leaving or in the less crowded advanced classes. It is certainly encouraged. I will tell you in my personal experience rolling with Ryan, if I am not (attempting to) control Ryan when I stand up to pass, he stands right up with me and starts wrestling.

What he advocates is very dependant on the situation and the minute details of said situation, so your question about conceding the takedown could have 100 answers. We've learned ways to shut people down doing that, and we've drilled sitting through to guard both. The manliest option is always encouraged and emphasized.

Your post seems to be asking the question do Ryan and Seph encourage stand up and learning the top, and the answer is very much so. When I came to the gym my top game was non existant. I started from my back and finished from my back, win or lose. Theyve completely changed how I roll, for the better and really gotten me to open up and learn and get away from the mindset that I am a superfeather, so I have to play guard. I feel much more manly since joining the team.

Kenny thanks for that. You answered my questions very well.

 

[Drew Foster]

LOL. Something I find amusing is how much BJJ's development in context parallel's judo's, only in fast forward. An art that has really only existed and developed for 15 years in North America and there are ALREADY traditionalists. 15 years ago, Relson was still teaching out of his garage there was no such thing as a BJJ gi in the states. Shit, I remember being given an old school Krugans gi (with the old flying viking patches) around that time and people were like WTF is that? It hasn't even been two full decades and you got people going "that isn't BJJ!" despite the fact the dude is submitting people and winning in competition. Sounds exactly like judo when the Russians happened.

As a Judoka with one former coach that had a very "European/Russian" style, this is a great analogy!

 

[redaxe]

Another factor that I don't think has been mentioned here is that point scoring strategy is very important in BJJ competition, especially at the upper levels where guys have amazingly good submission defense. Think about it, there are a bunch of ways to score points from mount, while there are only two ways to score points from guard, one of which is sweeping into top position (the other is to take the back).

So it's really nothing groundbreaking for Ryan to say that the guard should be used to get to top position--that's exactly what the point system encourages, plus there are a zillion ways to score more points or submit once you're on top, and a lot of them are actually much easier to execute than guard submissions because you don't have to fight against gravity.

And yeah, it seems like when you're fighting really good guys, it's very tough to sweep from guard directly to mount, the sweep ends up being more just to get him on his back so you can stand up and start passing guard.

Also, lots of BJJ guys suck at takedowns, so I don't see any problem with emphasizing them a little more, as long as you're not wasting energy trying to beat wrestlers at their own game.

 

[brollikk]

I've long since quit bjj after finding out barnett won the worlds. Now I try to emulate Josh Barnett's bottom game (like what he did against otavio souza) and also his bottom game against mark Kerr.

 

[brollikk]

Ok I lied, but back on topic... i agree with what Ryan said about high level grappling. The guard should definitely be used as a means to get on top of the opponent. All worst case scenarios should be trained hard.

 

[FWTG]

"So, be like Roger Gracie; that

 

[RoyMunson]

 

[RoyMunson]

for all he says about the inverted guard being ineffective, it is what won braulio the absolute championship against the only guy who has been able to handle roger in a gi

 

[Jiujitsunoob]

for all he says about the inverted guard being ineffective, it is what won braulio the absolute championship against the only guy who has been able to handle roger in a gi

to be fair that wasn't really inverted guard and xande got injured after escaping the triangle attempt.

 

[L1l3v1l]

Some people still teach the shrimp as a viable side control escape.

Can someone enlighten a cretin such as myself on why shrimping is bad? The side control escape of moving your hips away(IE shrimping) and inserting the close knee seems to be pretty bread 'n' butter. What is the horrible problem?

 

[Bathwater]

Hater.

Ryan won 3rd at the ADCC. It's time now that he's seperated from Lloyd Irvin that he find his own influences. He's obviously looking to Roger, Marcelo, and Cobrinha, etc. as guys to emulate. He wants to be an even more successful competitor, and he's making all the right moves to do so.

I've only seen him tape his hands recently, and I've never seen him heelhook someone with tape on his hands... not that it would matter.

To say Hall doesn't do JiuJitsu is pure jealousy.

I think I read somewhere he had surgery on his hand. Also, he's had it wrapped up during gi tournaments so the heelhook theory doesn't even make any sense.

EDIT: You and RoyMunson have the same avatar and I thought I was tripping balls for a second.

 

[RoyMunson]

to be fair that wasn't really inverted guard and xande got injured after escaping the triangle attempt.

he got xande from the inverted guard no question. watch it again if you have any doubts. Sure xande might have escaped but coming that close to catching someone that good indicates that the inverted guard has some merits to it.

 

[Drew Foster]

Can someone enlighten a cretin such as myself on why shrimping is bad? The side control escape of moving your hips away(IE shrimping) and inserting the close knee seems to be pretty bread 'n' butter. What is the horrible problem?

Ryan is talking about the ELITE level. Once people get very good, they will just follow you in side control if your only defense is to move your hips away. Basically, to illustrate my point, try to shrimp out from side control on a brown or black belt to insert the close knee and see how well it works. It won't work. A lot of it is that there is just a big skill gap, but there's more to it than that. Ryan;s trying to crack to code in order to be one of the best.

 

[mtruitt76]

Hater.

Ryan won 3rd at the ADCC. It's time now that he's seperated from Lloyd Irvin that he find his own influences. He's obviously looking to Roger, Marcelo, and Cobrinha, etc. as guys to emulate. He wants to be an even more successful competitor, and he's making all the right moves to do so.

What is strange though is that none those guys are advocating not playing the guard. In fact each one of them excellent guard players who have won many matches using the guard against the best bjj players in their weight classes.

I don't really get why people are giving so much weight to Ryan's opinion. Yes he is a very good grappler, but he is yet to the level where someone should change their view of bjj based on what he says.

 

[redaxe]

Ryan is talking about the ELITE level. Once people get very good, they will just follow you in side control if your only defense is to move your hips away. Basically, to illustrate my point, try to shrimp out from side control on a brown or black belt to insert the close knee and see how well it works. It won't work. A lot of it is that there is just a big skill gap, but there's more to it than that. Ryan;s trying to crack to code in order to be one of the best.

Most of the techniques that I do, don't work on brown or black belts, but that doesn't mean the technique is bad, it just means I'm not doing it well enough, or my timing is off, or they see it coming and counter it. Like you said, there is just a big skill gap.

Perhaps Ryan's side control escapes just aren't as good as his (black belt) opponents' side control yet. He is still a brown belt after all, isn't he?

 

[thegreenblender]

For those in the know, quit bogarting the shrimp knowledge. This isn't 1993.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

What is strange though is that none those guys are advocating not playing the guard. In fact each one of them excellent guard players who have won many matches using the guard against the best bjj players in their weight classes.

yes, but I think you're missing the point. I mean look what happened when Marcelo fought Daniel Moraes, a superior wrestler with a tight top game. he couldn't get daniel off him and lost by getting passed, similar situation when he fought popovich. also a better wrestler with a good top game... though whenever marcelo secured the top position on popovich Marcelo won in the past.

then Roger's matches with Xande. when Roger played on top he beat Xande, but when Xande played his top game Xande won.


then watch Cobrinha's match with purple belt justin rader in GQ. rader gave cobrinha all he could handle up to the last seconds of the match with superior wrestling and a relentless pressuring top game, and there is a clear skill gap there.

I don't really get why people are giving so much weight to Ryan's opinion. Yes he is a very good grappler, but he is yet to the level where someone should change their view of bjj based on what he says.

many people agree with Ryan's opinion, but that doesn't mean their opinion has changed. it's a pretty common point of view actually. just the way it was worded in the clips from this interview made it seem harsh. You did read the whole interview, right?