International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

[SandisLL]

I don't think that putin wants any ceasefire in reality.
Putin and elite are doing well and does have a lot of money etc...
Plebs are brainwashed with propaganda xxx years in row....

Russia now does have more drones, also these with fiber optic...
Guys Putin still is hiring....
Inflation isn't his problem.
Warmongers and nationalists in russia are happy and supports Putin.

Ofc he is talking that does wants peace because with this he is delaying decisions to supply something to ukr...delay and reduce supplies...this reality.

 

[San Marino]

So if these countries were part of Nato and didnt invade why would Putler be afraid if UKR joined?

Not a question of invading, but a question of a US military threat being too close to Russia. Ukraine has a much longer border with Russia than the first 2 countries.

Also, Ukraine has a history with Russia that the other 3 countries don't have. It was the 'crown jewel' of the Soviet Union.

 

[San Marino]

Lmao terrible analogy , you are apparently unaware that missiles can go farther than they could in 1964 , being close no longer fucking matters

Of course it does. Less reaction time.
You are not very bright are you?

Having said that the Cuban missile crisis was bullshit , we had missiles all along the USSRs border but once the ruskis had missiles able to hit the US the US had a hissy fit , thankfully the Soviets took the high road and turned their ships around.

Is that what happened? I don't think so.
You don't seem to know shit.
The US was told by the Soviets to take their nuclear missiles out of Turkey and Italy. Kennedy did exactly that.

 

[San Marino]

I mean, you can't actually explain it... because it makes no sense lol

What is a threat to the US and what is a threat to Russia professor?

 

[San Marino]

As for accepting vs. rejecting a ceasefire, this gets interesting. If you go by the Western media narrative where Russia is suffering massive casualties with its economy on the brink of collapse, then it makes sense for Russia to seek a ceasefire to recover & rearm for round 2. However, the Western media narrative on the Russo-Ukrainian war is just as bullshit as their reporting on Israel's wars vs. Palestine and Iran. Reality is the Russian economy is doing just fine and their actual casualties are far lower than what our media claims. In this case the logical choice is to continue the war until Ukraine unconditionally surrenders and accepts whatever terms Russia demands, this also has the further benefit of continuing to impoverish, destabilize, and de-industrialize Europe which reduces the potential damage it can do in the future should it choose to declare war.

Good post.
Zelensky to meet with Trump on Monday and a possible 3 way meeting with Putin by Friday. That being the current timeline. Quite fast if it all works out.

Putin (Russia) will get what he wants from Ukraine the easy way or the hard way. It is really up to Zelensky to decide how many more people he wants dead in this conflict.

Knowing Zelensky, he will drag this conflict out to the last Ukrainian soldier.

 

[Limbo Pete]

What is a threat to the US and what is a threat to Russia professor?

Even your weird questions make no sense lol
So NATO is acting toward Russia _now_ in the way Russia did toward America in the past? Is that where you're trying to go with this? Because there's like multiple levels of fail there, not the least of which is that NATO has shared border with Russia since it was founded (which incidentally was well prior to the Cuban Missle Crisis happening lmao).

Not that we haven't gone through all of this before

 

[San Marino]

...not the least of which is that NATO has shared border with Russia since it was founded (which incidentally was well prior to the Cuban Missle Crisis happening lmao).

Exactly.
So, why couldn't Cuba have Soviet missiles in its island? It is a sovereign country like Ukraine.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Exactly.
So, why couldn't Cuba have Soviet missiles in its island? It is a sovereign country like Ukraine.

So Ukraine needs to be invaded because NATO are the Cubans, the Soviets, or the Americans? Again, bearing in mind Russia has been sharing a border with NATO since it's inception

 

[SandisLL]

So Ukraine needs to be invaded because NATO are the Cubans, the Soviets, or the Americans? Again, bearing in mind Russia has been sharing a border with NATO since it's inception

It is useless to attempt discuss with russian propagandist, he is propagandist and is doing task: to brainwash ppl in english language forums, comments in social media, chats, social networks etc.

He is doing paid job here, for a living.

 

[Limbo Pete]

It is useless to attempt discuss with russian propagandist, he is propagandist and is doing task: to brainwash ppl in english language forums, comments in social media, chats, social networks etc.

He is doing paid job here, for a living.

Dude wishes he could get paid to spout this nonsense lol

 

[Cid]

 

[SandisLL]

btw I don't have clue why ukrainian propagandists are so confident that NATO actually doesn't protect Putin?
Because they does.

The kind of weapons and ammount supplied indicates that they doesn't want ukraine to win anything.
This had told some ppl these years.

I even had posted that if public info is correct, with supplied stuff only IF lucky maybe might be enough to hold frontline....
IF lucky. Before this counter offensive.
Ukr assumed that counter offensive against decently build fortifications guarded by industrial scale minefields against enemy who does have superiority in artillery and MRLS systems, mortars etc and does have aviation support...
Is possible with ...dream and without sufficient tools.
deUkrainization process...

and no, ykr doesn't use NATO or soviet doctrines... such stuff they doesn't teach.

 

[ChessJitsu]

So Ukraine needs to be invaded because NATO are the Cubans, the Soviets, or the Americans? Again, bearing in mind Russia has been sharing a border with NATO since it's inception

The invasion was a mistake and a humanitarian catastrophe, as any war is, but the rationale is the same and the analogy applies.

Also, it's not true that Russia shared a border with NATO since it's inception if you're talking about Russian Federation.

NATO literally came to Russia's borders.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/History_of_NATO_enlargement_animation.gif/1280px-History_of_NATO_enlargement_animation.gif

We're not going to get into this argument though.

With the Cuban missile crisis, the American and Soviet governments began to engage in lengthy dialogues to resolve the issue with the Soviet Union withdrawing its military plans to avoid a potential nuclear fall out.

This is what is unfortunately lacking with many governments in the last 4 decades- no engagement or attempt to understand in such thing.

 

[Limbo Pete]

The invasion was a mistake and a humanitarian catastrophe, as any war is, but the rationale is the same and the analogy applies.

Also, it's not true that Russia shared a border with NATO since it's inception if you're talking about Russian Federation.

NATO literally came to Russia's borders.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/History_of_NATO_enlargement_animation.gif/1280px-History_of_NATO_enlargement_animation.gif

We're not going to get into this argument though.

With the Cuban missile crisis, the American and Soviet governments began to engage in lengthy dialogues to resolve the issue with the Soviet Union withdrawing its military plans to avoid a potential nuclear fall out.

This is what is unfortunately lacking with many governments in the last 4 decades- no engagement or attempt to understand in such thing.

Norway was a founding member of NATO

And the analogy makes no sense, and that's any of the ways he could be making it (which is still unclear)

 

[ChessJitsu]

btw I don't have clue why ukrainian propagandists are so confident that NATO actually doesn't protect Putin?
Because they does.

The kind of weapons and ammount supplied indicates that they doesn't want ukraine to win anything.
This had told some ppl these years.

My theory is that NATO restricts the extent of its aid to Ukraine because Russia can retaliate by aiding Iran more.

If Iran gets full assistance from Russia and USA+Israel are attacking it would be a very costly war.

Russia might even go a step further and help Iran obtain its first nuclear bomb like they did with China... this would be Iran's ultimate win condition and the Middle East would be changed forever.

 

[SandisLL]

One from yt wunders is talk about ukr ballistic missile ....
Since 2019 th.
In reality unfortunately looks that maybe managed to produce some ..in the same 2019 th. After this... produced in yt etc ...not real stuff IMHO.
Till today Btw.

They even didn't had managed to produce Thocka U clones...gorbachev era stuff....North Korea managed... long ago.

 

[ChessJitsu]

Norway was a founding member of NATO

And the analogy makes no sense, and that's any of the ways he could be making it (which is still unclear)

good point about Norway (even though it's a tiny border).

the analogy with Cuba makes sense, you just dismiss it immediately.

 

[SandisLL]

My theory is that NATO restricts the extent of its aid to Ukraine because Russia can retaliate by aiding Iran more.

If Iran gets full assistance from Russia and USA+Israel are attacking it would be a very costly war.

Russia might even go a step further and help Iran obtain its first nuclear bomb like they did with China... this would be Iran's ultimate win condition and the Middle East would be changed forever.

There are grounds to think in such manner.

There most likely really is secret deal with Putin done under the table . ..
Abadon ykaine.
In exchange russia abadons iran.

1. U.S had supplied ukraine 0 fighter jets.
2. Ykr had get some from european countries, however old modifications already scheduled to be written off ....manufactured long ago...
3. Russia didn't had supplied Iran contracted Su 35 .... despite nice money might had been get immediately. Ajatollas are very angry....

 

[SandisLL]

good point about Norway (even though it's a tiny border).

the analogy with Cuba makes sense, you just dismiss it immediately.

It is tiny border, however very close to Murmansk, very important for ryssias strategic military and trade fleet etc... from there Murmansk oblastj might be deNazificated very quickly.... with missiles....

 

[Limbo Pete]

good point about Norway (even though it's a tiny border).

the analogy with Cuba makes sense, you just dismiss it immediately.

No, it doesn't lol
Ukraine isn't in NATO, and weren't going to be. Russia shares actual border with NATO, but aren't invading those countries. Finland just made that border significantly longer, and they didn't get an invasion. Furthermore, there isn't actually any threat of NATO invading Russia anyway.
The analogy flops, as I said, for multiple reasons.