International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

[Devil's_Advocate]

Hey @Limbo Pete and @DEVILsSON.
Why don't you guys get together and make a list of the following:
. How many Ukranian soldiers died this week.
. How many Ukrainian soldiers deserted so far in August.
. How many new soldiers have joined the Ukrainian Army in August.
. The size of the Ukrainian Army this week.
. How much ground Ukraine has lost during the month of August.

* Somehow all this information is never discussed. Also, do you guys really think that help from Europe is going to change the tide for Ukraine?

Sure thing buddy. I'll get right on that...

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Can someone explain to me why Putin doesn't take the ceasefire with the current terms and conditions ?

He will keep a huge part of Eastern Ukraine if I understood the terms right. Those are the russian speaking regions that he wanted right.

Hasn't the war been devastating in human livrs for both countries ? And they both had extremely low birth rates with negative replacement even before it ?

What is the strategic advantage for him, the war seems to be at a stalemate with no one making meaningful progress ? Is he seeing a future where he steamrolls Ukraine despite the support of Western countries ? If so it would make sense to not accept a cease-fire from his point of view. But isn't it delusional ?

I'm sure there is something that I don't see here because I don't have a very good understanding or knowledge of this conflict. But maybe someone can shed me some light without because a propagandist for one side or the other.

@Anewt you follow this closely don't you ?

Since you never respond to me and have me on ignore due to our differences of opinion on the Gaza events I'll provide this answer to others and it's very simple:

Putin sees the entirety of Ukraine as part of Russia. The pretenses of Russian speakers was just a ploy as always. When I visited Kyiv twenty years ago almost everyone spoke exclusively Russian. Ukrainian was only really spoken in the Western parts of Ukraine like Lviv.

Putin is clinging to power and if he were to give up two oblasts he had already added into the Russian constitution it would be seen as a severe betrayal. Russia has lost approximately 1.1 million men(about a quarter KIA) so the price paid has been seen as far too costly to stop now.

Russia will need to be defeated like Nazi Germany. The good part is that Russian economy is nearing a collapse and Ukrainians are punishing the Russians with the oil and gas drone sanctions far more than anything the West has mustered.

The meeting yesterday between Putin and Trump was to delay the planned sanctions and nothing else. It was nothing but a strategy to delay...

 

[TheMoa]

Can someone explain to me why Putin doesn't take the ceasefire with the current terms and conditions ?

He will keep a huge part of Eastern Ukraine if I understood the terms right. Those are the russian speaking regions that he wanted right.

Hasn't the war been devastating in human livrs for both countries ? And they both had extremely low birth rates with negative replacement even before it ?

What is the strategic advantage for him, the war seems to be at a stalemate with no one making meaningful progress ? Is he seeing a future where he steamrolls Ukraine despite the support of Western countries ? If so it would make sense to not accept a cease-fire from his point of view. But isn't it delusional ?

I'm sure there is something that I don't see here because I don't have a very good understanding or knowledge of this conflict. But maybe someone can shed me some light without because a propagandist for one side or the other.

@Anewt you follow this closely don't you ?

He's betting that the ukraine army will collapse by manpower shortage before his economy. China and India will keep buying oil and the ukraine army is showing signs of distress (frontline commanders complaining about lack of rotations, lawmakers complaining about desertions and recently they started to recruit 60 years old man).
Plus, the no Ukraine in NATO thing. If he spends all this manpower, effort and money to not get that he'll be the one falling from a window.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Since you never respond to me and have me on ignore due to our differences of opinion on the Gaza events I'll provide this answer to others and it's very simple:

Putin sees the entirety of Ukraine as part of Russia. The pretenses of Russian speakers was just a ploy as always. When I visited Kyiv twenty years ago almost everyone spoke exclusively Russian. Ukrainian was only really spoken in the Western parts of Ukraine like Lviv.

Putin is clinging to power and if he were to give up two oblasts he had already added into the Russian constitution it would be seen as a severe betrayal. Russia has lost approximately 1.1 million men(about a quarter KIA) so the price paid has been seen as far too costly to stop now.

Russia will need to be defeated like Nazi Germany. The good part is that Russian economy is nearing a collapse and Ukrainians are punishing the Russians with the oil and gas drone sanctions far more than anything the West has mustered.

The meeting yesterday between Putin and Trump was to delay the planned sanctions and nothing else. It was nothing but a strategy to delay...

Good take and a simple note that should be made is that Putler is like Hitler in 1944 right now, he is insane and prob knows he is not going be able to take what he wants anytime soon and it will bankrupt his country as many different cracks are showing. things will be getting worse not better and hopefully Trump will drop another hammer on him.

 

[aerius]

Can someone explain to me why Putin doesn't take the ceasefire with the current terms and conditions ?

He will keep a huge part of Eastern Ukraine if I understood the terms right. Those are the russian speaking regions that he wanted right.

Hasn't the war been devastating in human livrs for both countries ? And they both had extremely low birth rates with negative replacement even before it ?

What is the strategic advantage for him, the war seems to be at a stalemate with no one making meaningful progress ? Is he seeing a future where he steamrolls Ukraine despite the support of Western countries ? If so it would make sense to not accept a cease-fire from his point of view. But isn't it delusional ?

I'm sure there is something that I don't see here because I don't have a very good understanding or knowledge of this conflict. But maybe someone can shed me some light without because a propagandist for one side or the other.

@Anewt you follow this closely don't you ?

Putin will not accept a ceasefire under the current conditions because it does not address the root causes of the conflict. It does not remove the threat of Ukraine/NATO doing something stupid in the next 5-10 years and causing an even more serious & damaging conflict than the current one. It also does not meet the stated Russian demands of demilitarization, denazification, and no NATO membership for the Ukraine.

On the strategic level, Russia is taking losses, however, they're also inflicting far greater losses on the Ukrainians. They believe their own losses are acceptable and can be sustained until the goals of the special military operation are met, even if they have to kill every last Ukrainian along with anyone in Europe who's dumb enough to get involved. Given that they've already destroyed more tanks, artillery, and air defence systems in Ukraine than the entire EU put together has in its inventory, they're probably right. The US Army War College published an article a couple years ago where they admit the US/NATO would take massive casualties if they tried to fight the Russians, you can read the article in the link but in short they estimate around 3600 casualties/day and 50,000 or so in just 2 weeks. Given the advancements in drone technologies & tactics since then, the casualty rate for NATO will be significantly higher today than the estimate from 2 years ago.

As for accepting vs. rejecting a ceasefire, this gets interesting. If you go by the Western media narrative where Russia is suffering massive casualties with its economy on the brink of collapse, then it makes sense for Russia to seek a ceasefire to recover & rearm for round 2. However, the Western media narrative on the Russo-Ukrainian war is just as bullshit as their reporting on Israel's wars vs. Palestine and Iran. Reality is the Russian economy is doing just fine and their actual casualties are far lower than what our media claims. In this case the logical choice is to continue the war until Ukraine unconditionally surrenders and accepts whatever terms Russia demands, this also has the further benefit of continuing to impoverish, destabilize, and de-industrialize Europe which reduces the potential damage it can do in the future should it choose to declare war.

 

[Cid]

Can someone explain to me why Putin doesn't take the ceasefire with the current terms and conditions ?

He will keep a huge part of Eastern Ukraine if I understood the terms right. Those are the russian speaking regions that he wanted right.

Hasn't the war been devastating in human livrs for both countries ? And they both had extremely low birth rates with negative replacement even before it ?

What is the strategic advantage for him, the war seems to be at a stalemate with no one making meaningful progress ? Is he seeing a future where he steamrolls Ukraine despite the support of Western countries ? If so it would make sense to not accept a cease-fire from his point of view. But isn't it delusional ?

I'm sure there is something that I don't see here because I don't have a very good understanding or knowledge of this conflict. But maybe someone can shed me some light without because a propagandist for one side or the other.

@Anewt you follow this closely don't you ?

He thinks he can win.

US has stopped donations. He thinks western will is weak and that Europeans will get tired of picking up the slack and eventually follow suit in complaining about spending their money on an "unwinnable war" and withdraw support.

Not my opinion but not entirely without merit.

US not donating aid is his biggest win of the war so far.

 

[AWilder]

Putin will not accept a ceasefire under the current conditions because it does not address the root causes of the conflict. It does not remove the threat of Ukraine/NATO doing something stupid in the next 5-10 years and causing an even more serious & damaging conflict than the current one. It also does not meet the stated Russian demands of demilitarization, denazification, and no NATO membership for the Ukraine.

On the strategic level, Russia is taking losses, however, they're also inflicting far greater losses on the Ukrainians. They believe their own losses are acceptable and can be sustained until the goals of the special military operation are met, even if they have to kill every last Ukrainian along with anyone in Europe who's dumb enough to get involved. Given that they've already destroyed more tanks, artillery, and air defence systems in Ukraine than the entire EU put together has in its inventory, they're probably right. The US Army War College published an article a couple years ago where they admit the US/NATO would take massive casualties if they tried to fight the Russians, you can read the article in the link but in short they estimate around 3600 casualties/day and 50,000 or so in just 2 weeks. Given the advancements in drone technologies & tactics since then, the casualty rate for NATO will be significantly higher today than the estimate from 2 years ago.

As for accepting vs. rejecting a ceasefire, this gets interesting. If you go by the Western media narrative where Russia is suffering massive casualties with its economy on the brink of collapse, then it makes sense for Russia to seek a ceasefire to recover & rearm for round 2. However, the Western media narrative on the Russo-Ukrainian war is just as bullshit as their reporting on Israel's wars vs. Palestine and Iran. Reality is the Russian economy is doing just fine and their actual casualties are far lower than what our media claims. In this case the logical choice is to continue the war until Ukraine unconditionally surrenders and accepts whatever terms Russia demands, this also has the further benefit of continuing to impoverish, destabilize, and de-industrialize Europe which reduces the potential damage it can do in the future should it choose to declare war.

Do you actually believe this retarded shit?

 

[Strychnine]

Operation Spiderweb kicked off a month later than it should've because...

The Russian drivers were drunk.

 

[Strychnine]

Sent into the meat-grinder just for Putin's photo-op. The only hope is for those Russians to surrender.

 

[Strychnine]

He left America because of "woke" and escaped to Russia for "family values."

He chose poorly.

 

[Strychnine]

 

[Strychnine]

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Putin will not accept a ceasefire under the current conditions because it does not address the root causes of the conflict. It does not remove the threat of Ukraine/NATO doing something stupid in the next 5-10 years and causing an even more serious & damaging conflict than the current one. It also does not meet the stated Russian demands of demilitarization, denazification, and no NATO membership for the Ukraine.

On the strategic level, Russia is taking losses, however, they're also inflicting far greater losses on the Ukrainians. They believe their own losses are acceptable and can be sustained until the goals of the special military operation are met, even if they have to kill every last Ukrainian along with anyone in Europe who's dumb enough to get involved. Given that they've already destroyed more tanks, artillery, and air defence systems in Ukraine than the entire EU put together has in its inventory, they're probably right. The US Army War College published an article a couple years ago where they admit the US/NATO would take massive casualties if they tried to fight the Russians, you can read the article in the link but in short they estimate around 3600 casualties/day and 50,000 or so in just 2 weeks. Given the advancements in drone technologies & tactics since then, the casualty rate for NATO will be significantly higher today than the estimate from 2 years ago.

As for accepting vs. rejecting a ceasefire, this gets interesting. If you go by the Western media narrative where Russia is suffering massive casualties with its economy on the brink of collapse, then it makes sense for Russia to seek a ceasefire to recover & rearm for round 2. However, the Western media narrative on the Russo-Ukrainian war is just as bullshit as their reporting on Israel's wars vs. Palestine and Iran. Reality is the Russian economy is doing just fine and their actual casualties are far lower than what our media claims. In this case the logical choice is to continue the war until Ukraine unconditionally surrenders and accepts whatever terms Russia demands, this also has the further benefit of continuing to impoverish, destabilize, and de-industrialize Europe which reduces the potential damage it can do in the future should it choose to declare war.

Bro, Russia is losing Pokrovsk direction back because they don't have any armor left....armor is certainly not as important as it once was but you can't have just infantry...

You and San Marino just spin anti Ukrainian narratives while ignoring the realities for the Russians like no tank/armor reserves left over....financial struggles to the point they are stuck in a situation they can't raise interest rates to control the inflation....Russian internal oil prices are rising ...the sanctions are getting tougher over time....former international allies are crumbling or leaving the alliance (Syria, Armenia, Iran , etc)...

Do you really think Putin went to US because he's doing so great?

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

So am I, but not when the country in question would join NATO and become a threat to Russia. Remember Cuba? How about Iraq? Where those borders respected?

I think you mean respecting borders when it fits your political ideology.

Why would Ukraine joining NATO be a threat to Russia?

I was against the Iraq war , Cuba ? not sure what you are on about there

I'll make this simple for you , I am against countries attacking other countries

 

[Strychnine]

 

[Strychnine]

Trump got dog-walked by Putin. There's no other way to put it.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Do you actually believe this retarded shit?

It's posts like that , that confirm Russian propaganda works and that's why Putler is able to slaughter his own people for whatever "excuse" of the day is.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Why would Ukraine joining NATO be a threat to Russia?

I was against the Iraq war , Cuba ? not sure what you are on about there

I make this simple for you , I am against countries attacking other countries

Those are just his Russian talking points, Nato countries dont "invade by force, countries apply to be a member to counter Russian aggression. You prob noticed other posters debate with him and its useless, he will spin and lie anything into a pro Russian view.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Those are just his Russian talking points, Nato countries dont "invade by force, countries apply to be a member to counter Russian aggression. You prob noticed other posters debate with him and its useless, he will spin and lie anything into a pro Russian view.

The ironic part is that if Putin invaded Ukraine to prevent a border with NATO he's already fucked himself.

 

[TheMoa]

Those are just his Russian talking points, Nato countries dont "invade by force, countries apply to be a member to counter Russian aggression. You prob noticed other posters debate with him and its useless, he will spin and lie anything into a pro Russian view.

huuumm... I do remember NATO bombing Yugoslavia and Lybia... plus "trainning operations" in Iraqi