International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[Hog-train]

This general says there might soon be a lot of political pressure from the US and UK toward Zelensky to do a ceasefire deal. Russia keeps the land they have, etc. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

He also says Ukraine was definitely not given enough military aid to retake their land and was not given all the artillery ammo they were promised.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

This general says there might soon be a lot of political pressure from the US and UK toward Zelensky to do a ceasefire deal. Russia keeps the land they have, etc. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

He also says Ukraine was definitely not given enough military aid to retake their land and was not given all the artillery ammo they were promised.

I dont think UKR will be pressured into a cease fire that would benefit Russia to regroup and attack in the future. Russia is at full war operation and up to 40% of their budget and is unstainable for too long. UKR just needs to let them bleed themselves out of manpower and equipment while bankrupting themselves trying to keep a bit of land.

 

[Hog-train]

I dont think UKR will be pressured into a cease fire that would benefit Russia to regroup and attack in the future. Russia is at full war operation and up to 40% of their budget and is unstainable for too long. UKR just needs to let them bleed themselves out of manpower and equipment while bankrupting themselves trying to keep a bit of land.

Russia is not at full war operation yet. They're still ramping up production. And Russia still plans on outlasting the West and is confident it can do so.

The only way Ukraine will be successful is if much more military aid is given.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Russia is not at full war operation yet. They're still ramping up production. And Russia still plans on outlasting the West and is confident it can do so.

The only way Ukraine will be successful is if much more military aid is given.

Russia not at full war operation yet? where did you get that info from? they have been at a total military operation for over a year now. But yes UKR does need a steady amount of aid to continue on.

 

[Hog-train]

Russia not at full war operation yet? where did you get that info from? they have been at a total military operation for over a year now. But yes UKR does need a steady amount of aid to continue on.

Well they're just starting to reap the benefits of full war operation now. There is an increasing homegrown output of missiles, drones, combat vehicles and artillery coming in and it will only increase during the slower winter months. They'll be less reliant on Iran and North Korea.

So this war is far from over. The West needs to step up or it's done. They had never given enough for them to accomplish their goals in the first place.

Even the F-16's will not be a game changer because they will not be given enough.

 

[SandisLL]

If/when Russia takes Avdiivka UKR can consider it a victory with all the loses of Armor and lives . Even for Russia the mass suicide waves was unbelievable with more to come.

Not likely Putin is worried about casualties.
He needs to take this Avdiivka and most likely will take because they managed to establish fire control on supplies route ................
Obiviously losses should be high because looks that areas between pincers and supply route are heavily mined ..........
Therefore all these technique losses: cos mines or when slowed down or stopped then shelled by UKr ....

However they delivered even more technique and manpower as replacement ....and continues to pressure Ukr.

 

[SandisLL]

Well they're just starting to reap the benefits of full war operation now. There is an increasing homegrown output of missiles, drones, combat vehicles and artillery coming in and it will only increase during the slower winter months. They'll be less reliant on Iran and North Korea.

So this war is far from over. The West needs to step up or it's done. They had never given enough for them to accomplish their goals in the first place.

Even the F-16's will not be a game changer because they will not be given enough.

Iran obiviously is racking up support for Russia, Belarus and North Korea too.

Russia also does have a lot of very old USSR era missiles and without any doubts will refubrish them and attempt to use. ..

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[Strychnine]

 

[Strychnine]

 

[SandisLL]

Radioelectronic warfare is different.
USSR in 1960 ies developed Grad missiles model designed to dispress chaffs ( dipoles )....
Later also models to deliver jammers behind frontline. Ofc these had worked just until battery was " done ".
BTW also some 152 mm shells designed to deliver jammers.

Russia since USSR era had developed also wide variety of " listening " stations and pelengators etc.

 

[SandisLL]

Poor soldier, looks that it isn't like USSR military in Afganistan ( these always attempted to collect even died comrades bodies, not alone wounded comrades ).

 

[Cid]

Well they're just starting to reap the benefits of full war operation now. There is an increasing homegrown output of missiles, drones, combat vehicles and artillery coming in and it will only increase during the slower winter months. They'll be less reliant on Iran and North Korea.

So this war is far from over. The West needs to step up or it's done. They had never given enough for them to accomplish their goals in the first place.

Even the F-16's will not be a game changer because they will not be given enough.

Impossible for them to get close to the numbers they could pull from the stockpile though. Thousands upon thousands of vehicles on top of 10 million shells from a country who's spending as a % of gdp was already around double that of other nations before the war.

Never going to happen.

The improved efficiency is the issue.

Every dollar taken from the budget of the bloated Navy or Air force will yield 100x the results just by diverting it in to lancet production. That is scary.


F-16 we just have to wait and see the results. Numbers aren't a large issue if they have a high survival rate.

 

[SandisLL]

December really will be critical for Ukraine.
A. U.S will start to discuss this bill for Israel, Ukr and border problems.
B. EU centralized macro financial assistance bill will be discussed : this will determine will Ukr get in January 2024th next monthly money injection and sum they will get in January 2024 th.....
C. A lot of countries will have final approval for budget 2024 th and there Ukr. will see approx how much money they might get additionally in 2024 th.

Ofc for short term most important things they need to get immediately are....ammo, weapons and missiles. Will see....

 

[Orgasmo]

Proper dumb cunt requires a colossal display of stupidity.

Like when you backed up my statement about battlefield transparency thinking you were rebutting it.

That was a proper dumb cunt display.

Going to have to settle for regular dumb cunt myself. But I do feel if we continue these conversations your expertise in this area may begin to rub off on me.




Anyways nice goal post shift. You've finally managed to bring up some points of legitimate concern for Ukraines war effort. Of course you've also included arguments that are fucking retarded but it's an improvement from all your points being retarded.


Wars are won on logistics, Ukraine is reliant on help and only a handful of the countries providing that help are willing to depart with more than 1% of their GDP to help. America is sending less than .25% I believe.

The type of war also plays into Russian hands. Western forces (with the exception of SK) are not artillery heavy forces. We're SEAD forces followed by dropping bombs with impunity and rolling over the wreckage with ground forces.

So there are some areas that need to scale up. Particularly artillery production. This isn't that difficult. Being shit in an area doesn't mean it's hard to scale. Scaling 100k shells to 300k shells is substantially easier than scaling 1M shells to 2M shells. Scaling 300k shells to 1M is substantially easier than scaling 2M to 4M.

Then there's a whole bunch of areas where we don't have to scale at all.

The stuff we retire will more than fill any requirements Ukraine may need in a slew of different categories. Air frames are the obvious example. F-16 is the most prevalent fighter in the world.

Russia on the other hand has to scale everything.

This is hilarious.

You're talking about the importance of logistics and material and then you're saying Russia is stronger nearly 2 years into a war after losing over 13,000 vehicles?

After 10M+ shells fired?
Half the artillery pieces removed from storage....

Russia was firing up to 50k shells a day with a production rate of about a million year.
I know you're retarded but you can figure out firing at that rate burns through a million shells in 20 days right?

I thought dumb cunt was enough to convey the scale of your stupidity. I was wrong.

Battlefield transparency for Ukraine is achieved with intelligence support from NATO, which can scaled down or withdrawn when the West loses interest. Same goes for training, funding and equipment from NATO to Ukraine. At this point Ukraine is merely providing the manpower since its domestic production is meagre, and even that manpower is growing thin with conscription officers dragging people off the streets and women started appearing in the trenches.

Now tell me this dumb shit. Who has the advantage in a fight where both sides can see each other's moves? Let me give you a hint since your remaining brain cells are having a hard time. One side has advantages in airpower, armor, drones, artillery, electronic warfare, manpower and capable of replenishing its battlefield losses much faster than the other. One the other hand, one side's leader literally has to beg for help every couple of months to make sure there are enough donations to maintain current stalemate.

Even the Ukrainians are starting to realize the bad spot they're in: https://kyivindependent.com/francis...s-victory-the-west-makes-possible-its-defeat/

Lay off the Slava Ukraini kool-aid.

 

[Hog-train]

Impossible for them to get close to the numbers they could pull from the stockpile though. Thousands upon thousands of vehicles on top of 10 million shells from a country who's spending as a % of gdp was already around double that of other nations before the war.

Never going to happen.

The improved efficiency is the issue.

Every dollar taken from the budget of the bloated Navy or Air force will yield 100x the results just by being diverting it in to lancet production. That is scary.


F-16 we just have to wait and see the results. Numbers aren't a large issue if they have a high survival rate.

A handful of F-16's aren't going to be a game changer. Russia still has lots of air power left.

 

[SandisLL]

I thought dumb cunt was enough to convey the scale of your stupidity. I was wrong.

Battlefield transparency for Ukraine is achieved with intelligence support from NATO, which can scaled down or withdrawn when the West loses interest. Same goes for training, funding and equipment from NATO to Ukraine. At this point Ukraine is merely provided the manpower since its domestic production is meagre, and even that manpower is growing thin with conscription officers dragging people off the streets and women started appearing in the trenches.

Now tell me this dumb shit. Who has the advantage in a fight where both sides can see each other's moves? Let me give you a hint since your remaining brain cells are having a hard time. One side has advantages in airpower, armor, drones, artillery, electronic warfare, manpower and capable of replenishing its battlefield losses much faster than the other. One the other hand, one side's leader literally has to beg for help every couple of months to make sure there are enough donations to maintain current stalemate.

Even the Ukrainians are starting to realize the bad spot they're in: https://kyivindependent.com/francis...s-victory-the-west-makes-possible-its-defeat/

Lay off the Slava Ukraini kool-aid.

Normal article. Everyone with critical mindset easily saw that west doesn't want complete Ukraine win.
Never wanted, for a reason maintained policy not to sell heavy weapons to Ukr 1994-2022 till invasion etc ....
Dreamers in Kiev still assumed that west wants to see them in EU and NATO.

However what kind of choice Ukr now does have?
A. To ask be completely incorporated in Russia.
B. To cede all these areas Putin had annexed on paper to Russia AND ofc to wait next war ....

Anyway Ukraine is done.

 

[Cid]

I thought dumb cunt was enough to convey the scale of your stupidity. I was wrong.

Battlefield transparency for Ukraine is achieved with intelligence support from NATO, which can scaled down or withdrawn when the West loses interest. Same goes for training, funding and equipment from NATO to Ukraine. At this point Ukraine is merely provided the manpower since its domestic production is meagre, and even that manpower is growing thin with conscription officers dragging people off the streets and women started appearing in the trenches.

Now tell me this dumb shit. Who has the advantage in a fight where both sides can see each other's moves? Let me give you a hint since your remaining brain cells are having a hard time. One side has advantages in airpower, armor, drones, artillery, electronic warfare, manpower and capable of replenishing its battlefield losses much faster than the other. One the other hand, one side's leader literally has to beg for help every couple of months to make sure there are enough donations to maintain current stalemate.

Even the Ukrainians are starting to realize the bad spot they're in: https://kyivindependent.com/francis...s-victory-the-west-makes-possible-its-defeat/

Lay off the Slava Ukraini kool-aid.

Yeah, the west does have a lot of money and equipment. I'll concede that.

You're the one with the strong opinions on who will win the war (most of which are based on BS) not me.

Who wins this war is going to be decided by the collective will of the West. If we decide Ukraine is going to win they will win. If we don't they won't.


It really is that simple.


America could send the Rapid Dragon system tomorrow which would allow Ukraine to destroy every manufacturing plant Russia has within 1500km of Ukraine in a matter of weeks.

Fuck man, your link is: Failing to empower Ukraines victory the west makes possible it's defeat.

 

[Cid]

A handful of F-16's aren't going to be a game changer. Russia still has lots of air power left.

Hopefully they get more than a handful. Pledged f-16 numbers are equal to every MLRS system sent and only 3 countries have committed so far.

I think which f-16, what munitions they are armed with and how many missiles are sent is just as important as the total numbers. If they're upgraded versions they're going to be around for a while.