International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[Devil's_Advocate]

ukrainians made their decision by electing a guy who wanted better relations with russia and didn't want to be another nation trapped by western creditors.

of course ukraine people decision was hijacked by western back insurrectionists and their democratically elected president was removed in a coup.

this led to people in donbas rising up against western backed anti russian junta in kiev

no amount of spinning and gaslighting will change those facts

You mean Russia sending Russian agents (equivalent to CIA operatives and special forces) to Donbas to recruit collaborators and provocateurs? Girkin has admitted this already. He was one such person. There were many more.

You are also lying repeatedly about what the people wanted. Ukrainians wanted to enter EU on which Yanukovych flip flopped. Revolution of Dignity legally removed a president who broke his promises and attempted to surpass the authority of Rada. You can write all the fan fiction you want but it won't change what actually took place.

No. What I am saying is we should live in reality. The outcome of this war if fought to conclusion is obvious. We should be pushing for peace instead of telling the Ukranians not to negotiate.

There is no need for more pointless death as if the outcome of this conflict is still up in the air.

It's also a huge waste of our tax money for something that has no bearing on our national security; in fact, funding this war has arguably made America less safe.

So you're claiming that reducing Russian military capacity is making America less safe? Are you really saying that with a straight face?

It cost us zero soldiers. It also is costing us 5% of military budget on a lot of equipment that was being phased out.

We also had many questions answered.

Are Kinzhal hypersonic missiles unstoppable? Nope. They were repeatedly shot down with 40 year old Patriot System.

Can Russians safeguard their fleets? Fuck no. They are being clowned by a country with no navy.

Can Russia detect arial targets on their own soil? Nope. A lot of drones made it very very deep into Russia/Moscow undetected.

How are Russian logistics? A shitshow to put it nicely.

How are Russian combined arms? Not particularly good or effective. They are down to WWI tactics. Literally WWI tactics plus drones.

How many tanks has Russia lost? Artillery systems? Air defense systems? Troops? How's Russian economy really?

Yes Russia held up better in some aspects than expected(due in no small part to the West slowrolling their support) but it's only a year and a half in. It will be a slow bleed of our 2nd biggest enemy(maybe even first).

 

[fedorthegoat777]

I think you made this exact statement a year ago, but UKR hasnt fallen yet.

I did. Still think the same thing.
You have a good memory.
I guess we will see who is right in a few years, I'm sure you won't forget.

 

[PEB]

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

I did. Still think the same thing.
You have a good memory.
I guess we will see who is right in a few years, I'm sure you won't forget.

True story. I think the way things have developed since the war started most predictions were wrong as things didnt go according to plan for both sides at different times.
My predictions have also changed as I had hoped the spring offensive would do better but turned into the summer offensive as promised weapons and material didnt show up and Russia was able to dig in deeper. So pushing Russia out with military force is unlikely anytime soon.
with aid being uncertain and UKR manpower not infinite I think they should take more of a defensive approach while continuing to pile on the drone strikes and long range missiles keeping equipment and man power at a lower risk and digging in where they need to.
Russia has been throwing everything and the kitchen sink on their latest offensives and even they must have a breaking point. the country will only put up with non stop conscription for so long and the massive cost of this war will be the factors that bring Russia down imo.
Sorry for the long read but even my outlook on things has changed.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Just watched that, Was true about him talking about how Russians have become mindless zombies sent out to kill or be killed without question. I've seen lots of Russian soldiers video's complaining about conditions and the high % of men in their units are being killed but aside from a few ramblings they get their guns or in their vehicles and charge forward into bullets and bombs.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

You mean Russia sending Russian agents (equivalent to CIA operatives and special forces) to Donbas to recruit collaborators and provocateurs? Girkin has admitted this already. He was one such person. There were many more.

You are also lying repeatedly about what the people wanted. Ukrainians wanted to enter EU on which Yanukovych flip flopped. Revolution of Dignity legally removed a president who broke his promises and attempted to surpass the authority of Rada. You can write all the fan fiction you want but it won't change what actually took place.




So you're claiming that reducing Russian military capacity is making America safe? Are you really saying that with a straight face?

It cost us zero soldiers. It also is costing us 5% of military budget on a lot of equipment that was being phased out.

We also had many questions answered.

Are Kinzhal hypersonic missiles unstoppable? Nope. They were repeatedly shot down with 40 year old Patriot System.

Can Russians safeguard their fleets? Fuck no. They are being clowned by a country with no navy.

Can Russia detect arial targets on their own soil? Nope. A lot of drones made it very very deep into Russia/Moscow undetected.

How are Russian logistics? A shitshow to put it nicely.

How are Russian combined arms? Not particularly good or effective. They are down to WWI tactics. Literally WWI tactics plus drones.

How many tanks has Russia lost? Artillery systems? Air defense systems? Troops? How's Russian economy really?

Yes Russia held up better in some aspects than expected(due in no small part to the West slowrolling their support) but it's only a year and a half in. It will be a slow bleed of our 2nd biggest enemy(maybe even first).

You'll get a better response arguing with a bag of hammers, he will just say you get your info from Western MSM propaganda and blame that puppet Zelenski.

 

[grimballer]

You mean Russia sending Russian agents (equivalent to CIA operatives and special forces) to Donbas to recruit collaborators and provocateurs? Girkin has admitted this already. He was one such person. There were many more.

You are also lying repeatedly about what the people wanted. Ukrainians wanted to enter EU on which Yanukovych flip flopped. Revolution of Dignity legally removed a president who broke his promises and attempted to surpass the authority of Rada. You can write all the fan fiction you want but it won't change what actually took place.




So you're claiming that reducing Russian military capacity is making America safe? Are you really saying that with a straight face?

It cost us zero soldiers. It also is costing us 5% of military budget on a lot of equipment that was being phased out.

We also had many questions answered.

Are Kinzhal hypersonic missiles unstoppable? Nope. They were repeatedly shot down with 40 year old Patriot System.

Can Russians safeguard their fleets? Fuck no. They are being clowned by a country with no navy.

Can Russia detect arial targets on their own soil? Nope. A lot of drones made it very very deep into Russia/Moscow undetected.

How are Russian logistics? A shitshow to put it nicely.

How are Russian combined arms? Not particularly good or effective. They are down to WWI tactics. Literally WWI tactics plus drones.

How many tanks has Russia lost? Artillery systems? Air defense systems? Troops? How's Russian economy really?

Yes Russia held up better in some aspects than expected(due in no small part to the West slowrolling their support) but it's only a year and a half in. It will be a slow bleed of our 2nd biggest enemy(maybe even first).

look who's talking!?!

you just parrot some made up nonsense you heard on msm by your usual hacks and pundits but then accuse others of "writing fan fiction"

you have no self awareness, kid.

gotta love how you deflect and go "but, but russia" while completely ignoring western involvement in a coup that got democratically elected president removed.

now you can believe in tooth fairies, santa clause and legality of the removal of ukraine president in 2014 all you want, but in real world it was an insurrection and duly elected president was removed. thats illegal and undemocratic.

just cause western back opposition doesn't like decisions made by president doesn't mean they get to remove him in a violent coup. it doesn't work that way.

they didn't have impeachable charges

they didn't have approval of supreme court

they didn't have enough votes to get him removed

they ignored all that and went through with their "impeachment" regardless.

it was mickey mouse impeachment and entire thing was a farce, but it doesn't stop simpletons like you to claim that it was "legal" and "legitimate".

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Just watched that, Was true about him talking about how Russians have become mindless zombies sent out to kill or be killed without question. I've seen lots of Russian soldiers video's complaining about conditions and the high % of men in their units are being killed but aside from a few ramblings they get their guns or in their vehicles and charge forward into bullets and bombs.

Sounds about right. From a historical perspective, Russia just throws it's people at the problem. Give them a gun and let them eat up some bullets and then they will send some more men in. If they keep the conditions bad enough, they don't really care that much about dying. Russia was on the winning side of both of the World Wars and also beat the French armies of Napoleon largely due to how many men they had available to be mowed down. They also won most of their recent skirmishes that they have been in such as the Ossetia war, Chechen wars, Russo -Georgian war, and the skirmishes in the Caucasus.

That is why I think they will win this. They will sacrifice enough people to do so.

Ukraine's chance for victory is if other countries start supplying people or the Russian people get tired of the war and get a new leader in that stops it.

 

[Cole train]

News about demilitarization of europe agains as topic

Germany has about supplies for 2 days war

News from 2016

German defence needs to spend billions to rebuild munition stocks -source

Germany needs to spend 14 billion euros ($15.48 billion) on replenishing its badly depleted stockpile of munitions as part of a broader plan up to 2030 to upgrade military equipment after years of decline, a German military source said.

www.reuters.com

And from Rheinische post today who say germany has 2 days worth of ammo due to ukraine but its clear problem existed already in 2016




So we got brits with 1 week plus worth of ammo.Same for french

now germany with 2 days worth, though everyone knew german military is in horrible state.

Question i feel asking is there anyone not bordering russia in europe whos military actually exists to fight conflict of this level and not just run around in third world countries.

 

[AWilder]

you just parrot some made up nonsense you heard

you have no self awareness, kid.

LMAO

 

[AWilder]

News about demilitarization of europe agains as topic

Germany has about supplies for 2 days war

News from 2016

German defence needs to spend billions to rebuild munition stocks -source

Germany needs to spend 14 billion euros ($15.48 billion) on replenishing its badly depleted stockpile of munitions as part of a broader plan up to 2030 to upgrade military equipment after years of decline, a German military source said.

www.reuters.com

And from Rheinische post today who say germany has 2 days worth of ammo due to ukraine but its clear problem existed already in 2016




So we got brits with 1 week plus worth of ammo.Same for french

now germany with 2 days worth, though everyone knew german military is in horrible state.

Question i feel asking is there anyone not bordering russia in europe whos military actually exists to fight conflict of this level and not just run around in third world countries.

pretty wild that this whole time America is the only country that isn't a paper tiger. EU countries have complex weapons but they couldn't produce them fast enough for any peer-to-peer conflict.

 

[Rod1]

ukrainian official confirms what everybody knew already



ukraine was pushed by the west to reject peace treaty with russia and keep fighting

so ukraine and its people were used by nato as pawns to fight a war with russia.

now lets see all the usual idiots try to spin this

What a fucking load of BS


You conveniently forgot the part where the Ukrainian official told the interviewer that they didn't trusted Russia to not try again after sorting out their logistical issues.


Basically its a nothingburger.

 

[Cole train]

pretty wild that this whole time America is the only country that isn't a paper tiger. EU countries have complex weapons but they couldn't produce them fast enough for any peer-to-peer conflict.

Countries bordering russia are generally fine militarily considering size, finland alone beats UK in supply amount.

Buut most are small countries which means small resources overall which is a problem when going up against superpower.

Usa of course is in own league with their stuff

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Yea...things are going swimmingly for Russia...

Russia moves air defence systems from "NATO-encircled Kaliningrad" to battlefield in Ukraine – UK intelligence

UK Defence Intelligence has suggested that Russia has moved strategic air defence assets from Kaliningrad Oblast in November to replace those lost in the war against Ukraine. Source: UK Defence Intelligence review on Twitter dated 26 November, as reported by European Pravda Details: Based on the...

www.yahoo.com

"

Russia moves air defence systems from "NATO-encircled Kaliningrad" to battlefield in Ukraine – UK intelligence​

Ukrainska Pravda
Sun, November 26, 2023 at 3:20 AM PST·1 min read
156

UK Defence Intelligence has suggested that Russia has moved strategic air defence assets from Kaliningrad Oblast in November to replace those lost in the war against Ukraine.

Source: UK Defence Intelligence review on Twitter dated 26 November, as reported by European Pravda

Details: Based on the exceptional movements of Russian transport aircraft during November 2023, UK intelligence suggests that Russia may have moved strategic air defence systems from Kaliningrad Oblast to replace those lost in the war with Ukraine.

These movements were noticed as Russia experienced a rise in losses of S-400 (SA-21 under NATO classification) air defence systems in the occupied territories of Ukraine in late October 2023.

"As its most westerly outpost and bordered on three sides by NATO member states, Russia sees Kaliningrad as one of its most strategically sensitive regions. The fact that the Russian MoD appears willing to accept additional risk here highlights the overstretch the war has caused for some of Russia’s key, modern capabilities," the UK MoD pointed out."

 

[Strychnine]

LMAO

I see what you did there!

 

[Cid]

Going to assume this is the work of partisans. Chelyabinsk is about 1000 miles from Ukraine.

Blast Reported at Russian Tank Engine Facility, Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant-Uraltrak

On the territory of the Russian enterprise Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant-Uraltrak there was a powerful explosion

mil.in.ua

But I think we're going to be seeing a lot more strikes in Russia territory soon.

Media: Ukraine retaliated against Russia's mass attack with 35-drone-strike

Ukraine attacked Russian military targets with about 35 drones overnight on Nov. 26 in response to Russia's mass Shahed attack against Ukraine a day earlier, Ukrainska Pravda reported, citing a military intelligence source.

kyivindependent.com

 

[giusti825]

Your concerned tax paying citizen? would have have said the same thing opposing "your money" to fight against Hitler in WW2?

Not comparable at all. There was an ability to defeat Germany, though the USSR did most of the heavy lifting, which was why Germany surrendered to them.

However, I am ideologically consistent. There was no credible threat to the United States from Germany. Sending our money and soldiers over there was a misuse of our tax revenue and fighting force. Our military and defense funds should be for OUR defense, not to attack or pester other countries half way around the world.

Germany would've lost that war with or without our participation.

 

[lsa]

Insane if true.

"Britain’s Ministry of Defense said the high, daily number of Russian casualties that Ukraine has claimed to have inflicted on Russian forces recently is “plausible.”
“The last six weeks have likely seen some of the highest Russian casualty rates of the war so far. The heavy losses have largely been caused by Russia’s offensive against the Donbas town of Avdiivka,” the defense ministry said.
Ukraine’s General Staff reported throughout November that Russian casualties were running at a daily average of 931 per day, the ministry noted in its latest intelligence assessment on Monday.

“Previously, the deadliest reported month for Russia was March 2023 with an average of 776 losses per day, at the height of Russia’s assault on Bakhmut,” the ministry said on X, formerly known as Twitter.

“Although Defence Intelligence cannot verify the methodology, taken as a total including both killed and wounded, the figures are plausible,” it said."

Ukraine war live updates: Drone warfare rages as Moscow and Kyiv attack each other; Putin says globalization is in 'deep crisis'

Drone warfare has intensified between Russia and Ukraine over the weekend, with both sides targeting each other's capital cities with dozens of drones.

www.cnbc.com

 

[AWilder]

<45>

 

[SandisLL]

Not comparable at all. There was an ability to defeat Germany, though the USSR did most of the heavy lifting, which was why Germany surrendered to them.

However, I am ideologically consistent. There was no credible threat to the United States from Germany. Sending our money and soldiers over there was a misuse of our tax revenue and fighting force. Our military and defense funds should be for OUR defense, not to attack or pester other countries half way around the world.

Germany would've lost that war with or without our participation.

Classic idiotism.
Germany had been ally vs Japan and ofc for you means nothing special.
Classic MAGA crying " my taxpayer's money ".