International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

Status
Not open for further replies.
Badr Hari said:
So let me guess, the US is aiding a US installed regime to fight against another US installed regime.
Click to expand...

I mean somewhat yes. Though one was installed much more recently.

Sometimes in life what matters isn't where you start it's where you end up.
 
Strychnine said:
Click to expand...

Here is the thing McCarthy traveled to Ukraine and commented to providing continued support he even short of even gave Biden and McConnell credit for supporting Ukraine. He can pretty easily say my constitutes many are Ukrainian and Polish as well as military support Ukraine if I want to return to office I need them.
 
AWilder said:
he wants the side targeting civilians to win. There's no point engaging him.
Click to expand...

Even that side he says is a US puppet. From what I've seen in previous posts he wants the conflict to go on because it somehow challenges the current order he doesn't like. But that is also contradictory to his stance of wanting Ukr to negotiate a territory giving deal. How can you want the ending of the conflict and the continuation of it at the same time?
 
ferrisjso said:
Russia already unoffically has the part of Moldova it wants and has had it for 30 years before the US installed the Yelstin/Putin regime.
Click to expand...
You are stupid if you think that U.S had installed Yeltsin or Putin.
I hope you get 1 rouble not 0,5 roubles for this post.
Trolls paychecks are dropping down.
 
SandisLL said:
You are stupid if you think that U.S had installed Yeltsin or Putin.
I hope you get 1 rouble not 0,5 roubles for this post.
Trolls paychecks are dropping down.
Click to expand...

1996 Russian election ring a bell where the US intervened when the Communists were going to win?

In the court of Kaiser Wilhelm II there was once a fellow named Holstein who really hated Russia and was kinda comic relief. Always was pushing everyone to destroy Russia. I think you might be his reincarnation.
 
Badr Hari said:
Even that side he says is a US puppet. From what I've seen in previous posts he wants the conflict to go on because it somehow challenges the current order he doesn't like. But that is also contradictory to his stance of wanting Ukr to negotiate a territory giving deal. How can you want the ending of the conflict and the continuation of it at the same time?
Click to expand...

I want Russia/the lefty seperatists to win for reasons you stated in a very broad way. I never said I want the war to continue. Like everyone else I want it to end with my preferred outcome. Thank you have nice day.

And yes both sides were installed by the US in 1996 and 2014 respectively. I did not say Putin is a US puppet I said his party and political order was originally installed as one a quarter century ago.
 
ferrisjso said:
I want Russia/the lefty seperatists to win for reasons you stated in a very broad way. I never said I want the war to continue. Like everyone else I want it to end with my preferred outcome. Thank you have nice day.

And yes both sides were installed by the US in 1996 and 2014 respectively. I did not say Putin is a US puppet I said his party and political order was originally installed as one a quarter century ago.
Click to expand...

Genuine question: why would you wish for Ukraine to lose this war, lose their identity, and lose their land?
 
Siver! said:
Genuine question: why would you wish for Ukraine to lose this war, lose their identity, and lose their land?
Click to expand...

We've had this conversation probably a dozen times.

The people whose land would be changing hands support Russia overwhelmingly and have been fighting to seperate from Ukraine for nearly a decade before Russia jumped in. If Ukraine joins NATO those lands will never be able to break free. If that's what those revolutionarys want I support them the same as I support leftist comrades all across the world. Ukraine is standing up for neoliberalism and the current capitalist based status quo and is more hostile towards my core values than Russia who has been supporting the leftist seperatists. Ukraine has the support of govts I don't like and has banned socialist parties in it's country. They also have the support of Nazis.

There's also the idea of ending the invincibility of the current western "rules based" order which claims to be the end of history and is arrogant enough to claim the artifical borders recognized by it are somehow more infalliable and perfect than ones established in the past. Because they said so. This order enforces the hegemony of capitalism, corporations and austerity on the worlds people. As much of Ukraine as possible should be spared from that, especially those who are willing to fight to get away from it.

There tried to give a basic rundown. But we've been interacting on these threads for awhile. If you really do not get my perspective I'm skeptical a little summary will change that.
 
ferrisjso said:
I want Russia/the lefty seperatists to win for reasons you stated in a very broad way. I never said I want the war to continue. Like everyone else I want it to end with my preferred outcome. Thank you have nice day.

And yes both sides were installed by the US in 1996 and 2014 respectively. I did not say Putin is a US puppet I said his party and political order was originally installed as one a quarter century ago.
Click to expand...

EBNj8qlU8AY2v9v.jpg
 
ferrisjso said:
We've had this conversation probably a dozen times.

The people whose land would be changing hands support Russia overwhelmingly and have been fighting to seperate from Ukraine for nearly a decade before Russia jumped in. If Ukraine joins NATO those lands will never be able to break free. If that's what those revolutionarys want I support them the same as I support leftist comrades all across the world. Ukraine is standing up for neoliberalism and the current capitalist based status quo and is more hostile towards my core values than Russia who has been supporting the leftist seperatists. Ukraine has the support of govts I don't like and has banned socialist parties in it's country. They also have the support of Nazis.

There's also the idea of ending the invincibility of the current western "rules based" order which claims to be the end of history and is arrogant enough to claim the artifical borders recognized by it are somehow more infalliable and perfect than ones established in the past. Because they said so. This order enforces the hegemony of capitalism, corporations and austerity on the worlds people. As much of Ukraine as possible should be spared from that, especially those who are willing to fight to get away from it.

There tried to give a basic rundown. But we've been interacting on these threads for awhile. If you really do not get my perspective I'm skeptical a little summary will change that.
Click to expand...

I do appreciate your summary, I hadn't really had an account from you as such that I can remember? I'm sure you've shared it a few times, first time I personally have read it properly.

I'm not sure NATO as such is opposed to Ukraine ceding land, didn't they even suggest it at one point?

I think NATO might be a bit overblown there. They seem to largely do whatever their members want by consensus: in this case, defending Ukraine along Ukraine's own lines.

What you've got to remember is, people are dying because of this political squabbling. Russia are so tepid about all this they won't even mobilize, invade, and conquer.

It would be horrific if they did - but the fact they won't is a serious blemish. They don't care about people dying. Russians or Ukrainians. They're making sure they do die, for some bizarre reason they won't fully commit to.

Can you really support that?
 
ferrisjso said:
We've had this conversation probably a dozen times.

The people whose land would be changing hands support Russia overwhelmingly and have been fighting to seperate from Ukraine for nearly a decade before Russia jumped in. If Ukraine joins NATO those lands will never be able to break free. If that's what those revolutionarys want I support them the same as I support leftist comrades all across the world. Ukraine is standing up for neoliberalism and the current capitalist based status quo and is more hostile towards my core values than Russia who has been supporting the leftist seperatists. Ukraine has the support of govts I don't like and has banned socialist parties in it's country. They also have the support of Nazis.

There's also the idea of ending the invincibility of the current western "rules based" order which claims to be the end of history and is arrogant enough to claim the artifical borders recognized by it are somehow more infalliable and perfect than ones established in the past. Because they said so. This order enforces the hegemony of capitalism, corporations and austerity on the worlds people. As much of Ukraine as possible should be spared from that, especially those who are willing to fight to get away from it.

There tried to give a basic rundown. But we've been interacting on these threads for awhile. If you really do not get my perspective I'm skeptical a little summary will change that.
Click to expand...
"A lot of Ukrainians are going to die for my tankie fantasy, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
 
I normally don't pay much stock to mainstream media articles on the war, but this article brings up an interesting possibility.

Here Are 3 Ways to End the War in Ukraine.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/08/18/how-to-end-ukraine-war-00111752

TLDR: There are 3 possibilities of this war ending favorably.

1. Ukraine militarily takes back all their territory including Crimea - will obviously be hard to achieve and dependent on a lot of factors including continued Western support and the political situation in Russia.

2. There is a diplomatic solution where Russia withdraws and returns all children taken. Very unlikely as Putin will keep fighting no matter the cost as long as there is a possibility that Western support falters.

3. Intriguing 3rd possibility. Ukraine is given the support it needs to eventually expel Russia. Sometime next year, Ukraine would declare a pause in offensive military operations and shift its primary focus to defending and rebuilding liberated areas while integrating with Western institutions. Then, at its July, 2024 summit in Washington, NATO would invite Ukraine to join the Western alliance, guaranteeing the security of all territory controlled by the Ukrainian government at that point under Article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Offering Article 5 protection to Ukrainian territory in this fashion would be akin to admitting a divided Germany to NATO after World War II and to America’s security pact with South Korea after the armistice that halted the Korean War without reunifying the Korean Peninsula. This would be a defensive pact, but not a commitment to take direct part in any future offensive operations Ukraine might choose to undertake.

This approach would not require Ukraine to cede any territory to Russia (contrary to what a NATO official suggested recently.) Ukraine and its allies would continue to pursue the country’s reunification within its 1991 borders.

And also mitigate any declining support a Trump presidency can do due to NATO treaty.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,275,111
Messages
57,968,563
Members
175,884
Latest member
cloudfair

Share this page

Back
Top