International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

[SandisLL]

Your CT du jour is that the US is misreporting their estimates for casualties.



The article clearly quotes officials:
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kyiv does not disclose official figures. But they said the slaughter intensified this year in eastern Ukraine and has continued at a steady clip as a nearly three-month-old counteroffensive drags on.

If you kept up with the conversation the problem is how casualties are reported. If ever reported, on both sides. Are DPR/LNR, Wagner, international volunteers, convicts, the other dozen PMC's being counted?

Ofc not likely.

Serious officials told that counted officially somewhere are just these where bodies are found and identified.
This applies for both sides and also about civies too.
Disappeared ppl aren't counted as dead or injured.
Russian MoD classified data and even if didn't, they always told that PMCs aren't counted in MoD KIA lists...
Also till some moment they told that LPR and DNPR isn't russia and they doesn't maintain such statistics about them.
LPR and DNPR too classified KIA numbers....
Ukraine too classified such data.

Mobile crematoriums are working.
Hospitals and morgues under NDA in all sides....

 

[Blayt7hh]

it is truly bizarre, but also hilarious, to see these lintard dorks cry about mainstream media trying to accurately report on the conflict and then rheeee when it is bot the narrative they want. The term beautiful disaster comes to mind

Oh shut up. Most poster in these thread have been following various reputable sources and rarely ever used msm. The chud squad, which you’ve know firmly entrenched yourself as part of, has been on here crying about how they’ve been brainwashed by the msm. It was never true and it was cheap lazy horseshit just like what you’re doing now.

I’ve seen quite a few of them posting negative news for Ukraine. What that tells me is they’re posting with an open mind while all you’ve done is chosen a side. We all know why that is too. You’re rooting for Russia to win because Biden is the president and he supports Ukraine. It’s fucking pathetic that you would throw away your values of freedom and democracy to root for a tyrant to conquer a fledgling democracy. But you can’t get over your partisan bullshit so here we are with you stinking up the thread.

 

[ferrisjso]

Oh shut up. Most poster in these thread have been following various reputable sources and rarely ever used msm. The chud squad, which you’ve know firmly entrenched yourself as part of, has been on here crying about how they’ve been brainwashed by the msm. It was never true and it was cheap lazy horseshit just like what you’re doing now.

I’ve seen quite a few of them posting negative news for Ukraine. What that tells me is they’re posting with an open mind while all you’ve done is chosen a side. We all know why that is too. You’re rooting for Russia to win because Biden is the president and he supports Ukraine. It’s fucking pathetic that you would throw away your values of freedom and democracy to root for a tyrant to conquer a fledgling democracy. But you can’t get over your partisan bullshit so here we are with you stinking up the thread.

Again you keep projecting everyones values and that everyone agrees with your definitions of freedom and democracy when they simply do not.

How do you know his values are that and if they are how do you know those words mean the same thing as the conventional western definition?

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[SandisLL]

For me interesting stuff is that these posters hating west ( exception ofc are these located in countries they are living ) still are living in " dying west " and banishing countries where they are living.
Instead to relocate to the same Belarus, Russia, Iran, North Korea or to these " republics " IF life in these is better.
Instead trolling all day and night.

 

[Goober stoober]

Oh shut up. Most poster in these thread have been following various reputable sources and rarely ever used msm. The chud squad, which you’ve know firmly entrenched yourself as part of, has been on here crying about how they’ve been brainwashed by the msm. It was never true and it was cheap lazy horseshit just like what you’re doing now.

I’ve seen quite a few of them posting negative news for Ukraine. What that tells me is they’re posting with an open mind while all you’ve done is chosen a side. We all know why that is too. You’re rooting for Russia to win because Biden is the president and he supports Ukraine. It’s fucking pathetic that you would throw away your values of freedom and democracy to root for a tyrant to conquer a fledgling democracy. But you can’t get over your partisan bullshit so here we are with you stinking up the thread.

stinking up the thread? you're out here callin ppl chuds lol

fkkk outta here.

choosing sides? bruh look at your post history in this thread.

you guys arent interested in discussion or reality. u need to understand something called nuance. look it up bigbrain.

 

[Goober stoober]

do u ever NOT post this guy's videos? i'm actually asking.

 

[Goober stoober]

like 4 k of empty land, but listening to these dorks you would think this conflict is at its final stage (aka fall of moscow)

don't u know, putin's dead and russia has fallen. we're in month 8 of the ukrainian victory tour.

 

[GhostZ06]

do u ever NOT post this guy's videos? i'm actually asking.

here have this video if your gonna complain.


i mean, hes been a good source of info. But if you got something better, by all means, please...show me. I wasn't planning on posting his stuff yet, until i watched more



Looks like Russians MOD lied about destroying a Stryker

 

[Hog-train]

Biased Russian apologists calling everyone else biased - ironic indeed.

 

[Blunderbuss]

Oh shut up. Most poster in these thread have been following various reputable sources and rarely ever used msm. The chud squad, which you’ve know firmly entrenched yourself as part of, has been on here crying about how they’ve been brainwashed by the msm. It was never true and it was cheap lazy horseshit just like what you’re doing now.

I’ve seen quite a few of them posting negative news for Ukraine. What that tells me is they’re posting with an open mind while all you’ve done is chosen a side. We all know why that is too. You’re rooting for Russia to win because Biden is the president and he supports Ukraine. It’s fucking pathetic that you would throw away your values of freedom and democracy to root for a tyrant to conquer a fledgling democracy. But you can’t get over your partisan bullshit so here we are with you stinking up the thread.

I mean, I'm very pro Ukraine and this thread has given me no illusion that they are winning the war. Actually, because I read a lot of BBC and Al Jazeera, this thread has given me the impression that Ukraine is doing much worse than I realized. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly come away with the idea, based on the pro Ukraine posters in this thread, that Ukraine is out and out destroying Russia at the moment.

 

[grimballer]

don't u know, putin's dead and russia has fallen. we're in month 8 of the ukrainian victory tour.

wasn't paying much attention to alt news... how did it happen?

did he die from terminal illness or was he taken out by russian oligarchs?

 

[Hog-train]

NYT just now reporting 500k dead or seriously injured. And this is strictly troops, not civilians.

Article also says in November it was estimated at 200k, so more than doubled since.

estimates at 120k russian dead and 70k Ukrainians



NYT article has a paywall, but this link basically copied and pasted their numbers

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-casualties-total-russia-latest-b2395516.html

I don't have NY Times paywall. This is copy and paste.

Troop Deaths and Injuries in Ukraine War Near 500,000, U.S. Officials Say

Ukraine and Russia have lost a staggering number of troops as Kyiv’s counteroffensive drags on. A lack of rapid medical care has added to the toll

By Helene Cooper, Thomas Gibbons-Neff, Eric Schmitt and Julian E. Barnes

Reporting from Washington and London

Aug. 18, 2023
The total number of Ukrainian and Russian troops killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began 18 months ago is nearing 500,000, U.S. officials said, a staggering toll as Russia assaults its next-door neighbor and tries to seize more territory.

The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kyiv does not disclose official figures. But they said the slaughter intensified this year in eastern Ukraine and has continued at a steady clip as a nearly three-month-old counteroffensive drags on.

Russia’s military casualties, the officials said, are approaching 300,000. The number includes as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injured troops. The Russian numbers dwarf the Ukrainian figures, which the officials put at close to 70,000 killed and 100,000 to 120,000 wounded.

But Russians outnumber Ukrainians on the battlefield almost three to one, and Russia has a larger population from which to replenish its ranks.

according to analysts. By contrast, Russia has almost triple that number, with 1,330,000 active-duty, reserve and paramilitary troops — most of the latter from the Wagner Group.

The Biden administration’s last public estimate of casualties came in November, when Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that more than 100,000 troops on each side had been killed or wounded since the war began in February 2022. At the time, officials said privately that the numbers were closer to 120,000 killed and wounded.

But that number soared in the winter and spring, as the two countries turned the eastern city of Bakhmut into a killing field. Hundreds of troops were killed or injured a day for many weeks, U.S. officials said. The Russians took heavy casualties, but so too did the Ukrainians as they tried to hold every inch of ground before losing the city in May.

The State of the War

• On the Front Line: Small villages along a buffer area between Ukrainian and Russian positions on the Zaporizhzhia war front are increasingly coming under heavy bombardment.
• F-16 Fighter Jets: The United States will allow allies to send American-made F-16 fighter jets to Kyiv once Ukrainian pilots are trained to operate them. The long-awaited announcement came as a spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force said that the planes wouldn’t arrive by winter as they had hoped.
• A Case for Ecocide: As dolphins wash up dead on the shores of the Black Sea, Ukrainian officials say their plight speaks to the savage toll that war is taking on the environment — something they want to document for prosecution.
• A Lifeline From Romania: As Russia continues to threaten vessels picking up Ukrainian grain in ports on the Black Sea, a 40-mile channel protected by a NATO umbrella has become a crucial alternative route.

The opening weeks of Kyiv’s counteroffensive this summer were particularly difficult for Ukraine. In the early phase, Western-trained Ukrainian troops struggled to employ “combined arms maneuvers” — a method of fighting in which infantry, armor and artillery are used together in synchronized attacks.

Ukrainian troops initially tried to break through dug-in Russian lines with mechanized combined arms formations. Equipped with advanced American weapons, the Ukrainians nonetheless became bogged down in dense Russian minefields under constant fire from artillery and helicopter gunships.

as much as 20 percent of the weaponry Ukraine sent to the battlefield was damaged or destroyed, according to U.S. and European officials. The losses included some of the formidable Western fighting machines — tanks and armored personnel carriers — that the Ukrainians were counting on to beat back the Russians.

More significantly, thousands of troops were killed or wounded, officials said.

A senior U.S. official acknowledged the high number of Ukrainian casualties but said combined arms is “very, very hard.” He added that in recent days, Ukrainian troops have begun to punch through initial rings of Russian defenses.

In recent weeks, Ukraine has shifted its battlefield tactics, returning to its old ways of wearing down Russian forces with artillery and long-range missiles instead of plunging into minefields under fire.

American officials are worried that Ukraine’s adjustments will race through precious ammunition supplies, which could benefit President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and disadvantage Ukraine in a war of attrition. But Ukrainian commanders decided the pivot reduced casualties and preserved their frontline fighting force.

around 69,000).

The number of dead and wounded reflects the amount of lethal munitions being expended by both sides. Thousands of rounds of artillery are fired every week, tanks batter buildings, land mines are everywhere and drones hover overhead picking off troops below. When close combat does occur, it resembles the battles of World War I: brutal and often taking place in trenches.

The numbers also point to a lack of rapid medical care on the frontline. Wounded soldiers are increasingly hard to evacuate given how much artillery and gunfire bookend each engagement. Unlike the U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, where American forces strictly adhered to evacuating casualties within an hour to a well-stocked medical facility, there is no such capability in Ukraine.

Instead, injured troops are often thrown into any vehicle available or leave the front on foot. In some cases, the wounded and dead are left on the battlefield, because medics are unable to reach them. Hospitals and aid stations are often overwhelmed.

Pentagon documents leaked in the spring, Russia had suffered 189,500 to 223,000 casualties, including up to 43,000 killed in action. One document said that as of February, Ukraine had suffered 124,500 to 131,000 casualties, with as many as 17,500 killed in action.

Ukrainian Troops Trained by the West Stumble in Battle
Aug. 2, 2023
Helene Cooper is a Pentagon correspondent. She was previously an editor, diplomatic correspondent and White House correspondent, and was part of the team awarded the 2015 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting, for its coverage of the Ebola epidemic. More about Helene Cooper

Thomas Gibbons-Neff is a Ukraine correspondent and a former Marine infantryman. More about Thomas Gibbons-Neff

Eric Schmitt is a senior writer who has traveled the world covering terrorism and national security. He was also the Pentagon correspondent. A member of the Times staff since 1983, he has shared four Pulitzer Prizes. More about Eric Schmitt

Julian E. Barnes is a national security reporter based in Washington, covering the intelligence agencies. Before joining The Times in 2018, he wrote about security matters for The Wall Street Journal. More about Julian E. Barnes

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

don't u know, putin's dead and russia has fallen. we're in month 8 of the ukrainian victory tour.

Your BS'ing nobody is saying that and you have taken the torch from spin Marino's hand. Why dont you join the Russian army and go to front?

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Russia’s Lavrov says West needs continual reminder of risks of nuclear war
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says US and NATO risk ‘a situation of direct armed confrontation of nuclear powers’.

No i aint saying all gun lovers got small dong. I took a shot at Lavrov

Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that possession of nuclear weapons protects Russia from security threats and that Moscow continually reminded the West of the risk of a nuclear conflict.

Lavrov’s comments are the latest reference by Russian officials to their country’s nuclear weapons arsenal, a rhetoric of military escalation by Moscow that has gained tempo and frequency since Russian forces invaded Ukraine last year.

Last month, former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Moscow would have to use a nuclear weapon if Ukraine’s counteroffensive against Russian troops was a success.

“The possession of nuclear arms is today the only possible response to some of the significant external threats to the security of our country,” Lavrov said in an interview for the state-owned magazine, The International Affairs, published early on Saturday on the foreign ministry website.

Lavrov said that the United States and NATO military alliance members risk ending up in “a situation of direct armed confrontation of nuclear powers”.

“We believe such a development should be prevented. That’s why we have to remind about the existence of high military and political risks and send sobering signals to our opponents,” Lavrov said.

NATO members and the US are Ukraine’s staunchest supporters and the largest providers of military aid in its war against Russia.

US President Joe Biden has called a threat of Russia using tactical nuclear weapons “real”. NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said this week that the Western military alliance has not detected any changes to Russia’s nuclear force stance, and therefore, NATO did not need to reciprocate in its nuclear posture.

On Thursday, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s closest allies, warned that he would use the nuclear weapons that Russia had deployed in his country if faced with external aggression.

“There can be only one threat – aggression against our country. If aggression against our country starts from Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, we will respond instantly with everything we have,” Lukashenko said in an interview.

Washington, DC-based think tank, the Institute for the Study of War, said earlier this year that Russia’s increasing nuclear war rhetoric was part of an “information operation” focused on discouraging Ukraine and its Western supporter.

“Russian invocations of nuclear threats and nuclear doctrine are part of an information operation meant to discourage Ukraine and the West but do not represent any material Russian intent to employ nuclear weapons,” the think tank said in an assessment.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...ds-continual-reminder-of-risks-of-nuclear-war

 

[Denter]

Again you keep projecting everyones values and that everyone agrees with your definitions of freedom and democracy when they simply do not.

How do you know his values are that and if they are how do you know those words mean the same thing as the conventional western definition?

A lot of assumptions are smuggled into the term "freedom and democracy". It's just used as magic words, a spell, etc.

The ironic thing is, when a war begins, no one acts very free or democratic. You can and will catch charges in Russia and Ukraine for criticism of the war.

 

[Rholk]

Russia’s Lavrov says West needs continual reminder of risks of nuclear war

 

[PBAC]

so the war is just fizzling out or something? I keep seeing a whole lot of news about stuff that's not happening

 

[Rholk]

so the war is just fizzling out or something?

in terms of intensity certainly not.
In terms of large chunks of territory changing hands, perhaps

 

[Octavian]

For me interesting stuff is that these posters hating west ( exception ofc are these located in countries they are living ) still are living in " dying west " and banishing countries where they are living.
Instead to relocate to the same Belarus, Russia, Iran, North Korea or to these " republics " IF life in these is better.
Instead trolling all day and night.

No kidding... it's bizarre and honestly, I think it's sorta a mental illness issue / highlighting some mental illness.