International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

[San Marino]

You talk as if Russian wasn't facing attrition, defenses need to be manned, positions need to be recaptured, Russia is still conducting counter-offensives and losing men and vehicles.

Well, the video was very good in explaining the current Russian defenses. Did you watch it?
My question still remains open to anyone. How exactly is Ukraine going to breach those defenses.
The general assumption by some of these idiots is that if you claim Russian defenses are good, they automatically assume you are on Russia's side. They ridicule you and don't address the breaching of said defenses. It is a complex question, so, it is easier to kill the messenger.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

It's a slow and steady approach to degrade Russian military. This war will be fight for Kherson over and over. Attack their supply lines and command posts. Starve them out. No need to go John Rambo behind enemy lines. It's a bit like once you've accepted this war will take years suddenly everything becomes more manageable.

I am also unbothered by loss of equipment. Protect the people first. It pays off in the long term. That is why the West has been far more successful than USSR/Russia. As long as Ukrainians are using the equipment in an intelligent manner, losses are to be expected and not a major area of concern. US/West can replenish equipment as needed. Ukrainians have shown that they are also quite good at making adjustments to reduce losses.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-counter-offensive-far-failure-183900712.html


Ukraine counter-offensive is far from failure -US general

Spoiler

"
Ukraine counter-offensive is far from failure -US general

FILE PHOTO: U.S. House Appropriations Defense Subcommittee hearing on President Biden's proposed budget request for the Department of Defense, on Capitol Hill
303
Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart
Updated Tue, July 18, 2023 at 6:43 PM PDT


By Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -Ukraine's counter-offensive against Russia is far from a failure, but the fight ahead will be long and bloody, the top U.S. general said on Tuesday, even as casualties on both sides mount and the front lines have moved only incrementally.

The United States and other allies have spent months building Ukraine a "mountain of steel" of weaponry and training Ukrainian forces in combined arms techniques to help Kyiv pierce formidable Russian defenses during its counter-offensive.

Asked whether the counter-offensive was a failure, at least so far, General Mark Milley, chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said: "It is far from a failure. I think that it's way too early to make that kind of call.

Speaking after another round of talks on arms for Ukraine in its fight against Russia's now nearly 17-month invasion, Milley said that the Ukrainian counteroffensive will be slow.

"I think there's a lot of fighting left to go and I'll stay with what we said before: This is going to be long. It's going be hard. It's going to be bloody," Milley told reporters.

Since Ukraine began its counteroffensive last month, Kyiv has recaptured some villages in the south and territory around the ruined city of Bakhmut in the east, but has yet to attempt a major breakthrough across heavily defended Russian lines.

Kyiv says it is deliberately advancing slowly to avoid high casualties on fortified defensive lines strewn with landmines, and is focused for now on degrading Russia's logistics and command. Moscow says the Ukrainian counteroffensive has failed.

Six weeks since Ukraine launched a counteroffensive in the east and south, Russia is mounting a ground offensive of its own in the northeast.

Russia also spent months digging into defensive positions, surrounding them with landmines and building heavily armed fortifications that have made Ukrainian advances in the east and south slow and bloody.

Milley said various war games had predicted certain levels of Ukrainian advances, but conflict on paper was different from the reality of facing complex minefields, barbed wire and Russian trenches.

"Real war is unpredictable. It's filled with fear, fog and friction," Milley said

Russia's defense ministry said its forces had advanced 2 km (1.2 miles) in the vicinity of Kupiansk, a frontline railway hub recaptured by Ukraine in an offensive last year. Kyiv acknowledged a "complicated" situation in the area. Reuters could not independently verify the situation.

Milley said that the group also discussed ramping up ammunition production at both "national levels and at the multinational level" through the European Union and the plans to train and supply Ukraine with F-16 fighter capability.

Oleksiy Reznikov, Ukraine defence minister, said after the Tuesday talks that "supply of weapons and equipment urgently needed" is a priority for Ukraine.

"Focus: air defence, ammunition and armour," Reznikov said on Twitter.

"

 

[Limbo Pete]

Well, the video was very good in explaining the current Russian defenses. Did you watch it?
My question still remains open to anyone. How exactly is Ukraine going to breach those defenses.
The general assumption by some of these idiots is that if you claim Russian defenses are good, they automatically assume you are on Russia's side. They ridicule you and don't address the breaching of said defenses. It is a complex question, so, it is easier to kill the messenger.

Iirc the word you used was "phenomenal", and tbh that word only applies re: Russia in the sense that they have been phenomenally underwhelming for a military that was alleged to be the second best in the world

 

[San Marino]

No, I mean mobilized = people with previous experience in army. While conscripts are people with 0 experience in army.

Speaking from the U.S. Army side of the house. Yes, if you are mobilized you are already in the Army with a unit.
You can be conscripted (drafted) without any experience in the Army. From the streets into basic training. Draftees normally have not been in the military.

 

[Feniamin]

Speaking from the U.S. Army side of the house. Yes, if you are mobilized you are already in the Army with a unit.
You can be conscripted (drafted) without any experience in the Army. From the streets into basic training. Draftees normally have not been in the military.

That was my point. Your 2 % of mobilized Dagestani migh be people who served in Soviet Army. Or people who was born and lived outside of Dagestan but now lives/registered in Dagestan.

 

[San Marino]

Well, first of all, the terrain is radically different, the size and scope is radically different, the fortifications are different, the breath and sophistication of anti-aircraft weaponry is massively different.

. Terrain does not matter. Do you think the U.S. Army only trains to fight in one type of terrain?
. Size and scope does not matter.
. Fortifications are basically the same.
. Anti-aircraft weapons have not changed that much. Plus, we are talking about a night drop.

...and the inclusion of other contemporary technologies such as drones dramatically alters the way we even think about approaching an assault of fortified positions.

True to some degree. Not just drones, but night vision equipment. Remember that night Airborne operation the US did into Panama in 1989 with the 82nd and the 75th Rangers? It wasn't that long ago now, was it? Things that went wrong had nothing to do with what you mentioned above.

 

[Limbo Pete]

. Terrain does not matter. Do you think the U.S. Army only trains to fight in one type of terrain?
. Size and scope does not matter.
. Fortifications are basically the same.
. Anti-aircraft weapons have not changed that much. Plus, we are talking about a night drop.

True to some degree. Not just drones, but night vision equipment. Remember that night Airborne operation the US did into Panama in 1989 with the 82nd and the 75th Rangers? It wasn't that long ago now, was it? Things that went wrong had nothing to do with what you mentioned above.

This is one of the stupidest things i've ever seen someone post. Like, ever. I can't even form the wherewithal to insult the rest of that abomination of a post because the first words are so powerfully wrong it's threatening to cause a total eclipse of the sun. How can a person type out the words "terrain does not matter" and have any shred of rationality?

 

[San Marino]

Marine Corps, five years, 0321, one tour Afghanistan and one in Iraq.

Marine Reconnaissance. Did you make it to E-5, Sergeant? Why did you get out?

Yeah, I've seen this stupidity from you a lot. Make a dumb claim, get refuted, and then point to a completely different scenario and say, "But it worked there!"

Really? Where?
Mate you are full of dumb claims.

Just because we've had success in airborne drops in our history, does not mean Ukraine flying slow moving planes through a deathtrap of anti air, to then drop units in between a minefield and dug in enemy; all the while being within artillery range, is beyond stupid.

See, there is 'stupid' talking again.
'...between a minefield and dug in enemy.' At what point did I say where units were going to be landing? You are thinking daytime are you not? I was thinking a night drop. The idea would be for a drop miles East from where the fortifications are located. Only a Marine would think of dropping soldiers between minefields and enemy troops. So, how exactly would the U.S. Marines breach said Russian fortifications. Throw some crayons at the Russians? Yeah, the non-Marines will not understand the joke.

 

[San Marino]

This is one of the stupidest things i've ever seen someone post. Like, ever. I can't even form the wherewithal to insult the rest of that abomination of a post because the first words are so powerfully wrong it's threatening to cause a total eclipse of the sun. How can a person type out the words "terrain does not matter" and have any shred of rationality?

Well, everything for you is stupid mate. That is all you post about. How smart you are and how stupid everyone else is. Are you sure you even went to college? A master's degree in history? So, a bachelor's and a master's degree and you are still this stupid. Was it by correspondence?
You were so focused on the first sentence you forgot to read the second:

Do you think the U.S. Army only trains to fight in one type of terrain?

 

[Strychnine]

Ukrainian helicopter crew say women flash them as they fly overhead to boost their morale fighting Russia

"A Ukrainian helicopter crew told The Sunday Times that women in the country had flashed them as they were flying overhead to boost their morale in fighting Russia.

In a recent feature, the show of support was described by a Ukrainian pilot, referred to only as a major named Maksym.

He said his crew had saved the GPS locations of places where it'd happened, lighthearted moments in their dangerous and often demoralizing missions against a far superior Russian air force.

One woman even proposed marriage to them by holding up a sign, he said."

Ukraine Women Flash As Helicopters Fly Over to Boost Morale: Pilot (businessinsider.com)

Spoiler

 

[San Marino]

This makes it seem like attrition is now the tactic.

This is the part I like: "U.S. urges a decisive breakthrough." If it was only that easy. But yes, they got this part right:

"Ukraine’s military leaders argue that, lacking aviation might, they must avoid unnecessary losses against an adversary with a far larger pool of recruits and weaponry. To preserve manpower, Ukraine has fielded just four of a dozen trained brigades in the current campaign."

* More like 7 trained Brigades. 12 is an estimated number.

 

[Rational Poster]

Your point being? If you have one.
Truth is it would not be all that different really.
I'm sorry dude, you are just stupid. Like your little friends.

 

[San Marino]

How can a person type out the words "terrain does not matter" and have any shred of rationality?

Did you read post #3489.
Yeah, we in the Army only train to fight in one type of terrain. Something flat with some woods. Not very cold or hot. If the conflict does not meet this requirement, we won't go.

 

[San Marino]

Yeah. I see this is an easier way for you to communicate.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Did you read post #3489.
Yeah, we in the Army only train to fight in one type of terrain. Something flat with some woods. Not very cold or hot. If the conflict does not meet this requirement, we won't go.

What in the hell are you even rambling about It's like your brain spazzes out when confronted with even minor road blocks to rational thought. You tried, feebly, to compare Ukrainian offensive options in this current conflict to what Americans did during D-Day. I have now pointed out, quite correctly, that the terrain of coastal Normandy (among other things) is actually quite different than what Ukraine is being forced to assault, thus completely destroying your weird flaccid attempt to equivocate. The Us "training to fight on all terrain" is like the strangest non-sequitur.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Russians continue to get their shit pushed in. Got to love the drunks who plan those missions for the Russians.

 

[San Marino]

What in the hell are you even rambling about It's like your brain spazzes out when confronted with even minor road blocks to rational thought. You tried, feebly, to compare Ukrainian offensive options in this current conflict to what Americans did during D-Day. I have now pointed out, quite correctly, that the terrain of coastal Normandy (among other things) is actually quite different than what Ukraine is being forced to assault, thus completely destroying your weird flaccid attempt to equivocate. The Us "training to fight on all terrain" is like the strangest non-sequitur.

But wait, you said terrain matters, but you are also implying that the U.S. Army is limited to where it can fight in the world because of the terrain? Quit being stupid. I know it is hard for you to do but do try. Here is a small news flash you may not be aware of. The U.S. Army is equipped and trained to fight anywhere in the world. So, yes, terrain does not matter. If it did, the US military would be limited to where it can fight a war. That has never been the case.

"Mission Statement: On order, the 82nd Airborne Division rapidly deploys within 18 hours of notification, conducts forcible entry parachute assaults and secures key objectives for follow-on military operations in support of U.S. national interests anywhere in the world." -- Where does it say that the type of terrain would hinder the mission?

 

[Limbo Pete]

But wait, you said terrain matters, but you are also implying that the U.S. Army is limited to where it can fight in the world because of the terrain? Quit being stupid. I know it is hard for you to do but do try. Here is a small news flash you may not be aware of. The U.S. Army is equipped and trained to fight anywhere in the world. So, yes, terrain does not matter. If it did, the US military would be limited to where it can fight a war. That has never been the case.

"Mission Statement: On order, the 82nd Airborne Division rapidly deploys within 18 hours of notification, conducts forcible entry parachute assaults and secures key objectives for follow-on military operations in support of U.S. national interests anywhere in the world." -- Where does it say that the type of terrain would hinder the mission?

Nothing that you are saying is making any sense at all. What would the US army training to fight "anywhere" have to do with your comparison of Ukraine assaulting Russian defensive fortifications in Ukraine in 2023 and the US invasion on D-Day? Furthermore, even if that non-sequitur wasn't a retarded non-sequitur, training to fight "anywhere in the world" doesn't mean terrain is irrelevant, it means you are trained specifically because the variety of possible terrains is actually of extreme importance. That's why you train for them. It's so simple even a child could get it. Any person with even the slightest, most bare bones inkling of rudimentary military processes is going to recognize that the terrain of a battleground is of crucial importance to the ways in which it can be assaulted or defended. But I digress, back to your original idiocy, Ukraine trying to assault Russian fortifications does not actually resemble the allied assault on D-Day. Not only does it not resemble it it terms of terrain, seeing as the coast of Normandy is extremely different than Ukrainian farm, shrub, and swamp lands, but it doesn't resemble it in many other ways, either. Your drooling fool of a notion that Ukraine should drop airborn troops like they did on D-Day is just that, the slack jawed mumbling of big ol doofus.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

But wait, you said terrain matters, but you are also implying that the U.S. Army is limited to where it can fight in the world because of the terrain? Quit being stupid. I know it is hard for you to do but do try. Here is a small news flash you may not be aware of. The U.S. Army is equipped and trained to fight anywhere in the world. So, yes, terrain does not matter. If it did, the US military would be limited to where it can fight a war. That has never been the case.

"Mission Statement: On order, the 82nd Airborne Division rapidly deploys within 18 hours of notification, conducts forcible entry parachute assaults and secures key objectives for follow-on military operations in support of U.S. national interests anywhere in the world." -- Where does it say that the type of terrain would hinder the mission?

Russians and President Putin would disagree with your 'take'. The reason they do not want Ukraine in NATO is that the land to Moscow is essentially flat and tough to defend from an invading force. Had their been natural barriers like mountains, it's possible there would be no war at all. So even if we go with Russian mindset and talking points you'd still be wrong.

I think we also saw that terrain absolutely makes a difference. US was essentially able to secure entire Iraq while in Afghanistan US was only able to mostly secure just the capital/Kabul. So while US certainly has the means to fight anywhere, it's common sense that terrain makes a tremendous amount of difference as to the ease or difficulty in achieving the mission.

It really feels like you're going out of your way to be obtuse on the issue. Trolling for self amusement?

 

[SandisLL]

No, I mean mobilized = people with previous experience in army. While conscripts are people with 0 experience in army.

Nice.
So yeah, mainly they are mogilizating ( sorry for reality ) 21 -34 years old males who had previously served mandatory service as conscripts. Mainly from poor areas.

Most likely it is because small special military operation is going as had been planned according to Mr. Putin.
People are happy and statisfied with their God in Mr Putin.