Elections Rishi Sunak "Compulsory national service if the Tories win next election"

[Cole train]

The UK army has long been focused on small numbers of highly motivated, highly effective professional soldiers. I'm not really sure what the hell they'd do with 30,000 useless conscripts a year. They'd probably better serve the country by being made to pick up litter.

Thats due to focus on peacekeeping/being usas friend really, like in all countries west of poland. 138k active personnel plus 30k reserve is nothing if things go ukr war level of conflict.But theres no threats right now so who cares

Only logical reason i see is growing manpower to send into attacked nato country because you can send like 30 to 40 percent of above number which is kinda low if you want to get serious

 

[burningspear]

 

[avenue94]

Thats due to focus on peacekeeping/being usas friend really, like in all countries west of poland. 138k active personnel plus 30k reserve is nothing if things go ukr war level of conflict.But theres no threats right now so who cares

Only logical reason i see is growing manpower to send into attacked nato country because you can send like 30 to 40 percent of above number which is kinda low if you want to get serious

Conscription is a last resort to solve that issue during war. There's a reason that most former Eastern bloc militaries spent the past couple decades trying to professionalize their armies. Conscripts make poor professional soldiers.

 

[Cole train]

Conscription is a last resort to solve that issue during war. There's a reason that most former Eastern bloc militaries spent the past couple decades trying to professionalize their armies. Conscripts make poor professional soldiers.

Conscripts make good soldiers, literally all eastern block countries serious about military never got rid of conscription or are bringing it back.It all comes down to training and how system is set up

It was conscripts who stopped russian airborne troops at hostomel

Its conscripts who have been fighting israels wars for all this time

Its conscripts in finland who held back soviet army that just won stalingrad, not to mention most guys in ww2 were conscripts

Napoleon beat back coalition after coalition of professional soldiers with conscripts (to be fair its Napoleon)

 

[avenue94]

Conscripts make good soldiers, literally all eastern block countries serious about military never got rid of conscription or are bringing it back.It all comes down to training and how system is set up

It was conscripts who stopped russian airborne troops at hostomel

Its conscripts who have been fighting israels wars for all this time

Its conscripts in finland who held back soviet army that just won stalingrad, not to mention most guys in ww2 were conscripts

Napoleon beat back coalition after coalition of professional soldiers with conscripts (to be fair its Napoleon)

A huge reason Russia has struggled is because it has been unable to profesionalize its military. Most of the examples you're providing are conscripts versus conscripts, with the exception of the IDF, which has a rather unique need. The world has come a long way from WW2, and conscription doesn't go as far as it used to as technology and its education needs have advanced.

 

[The XL]

Compulsory anything is slavery.

 

[Cole train]

A huge reason Russia has struggled is because it has been unable to profesionalize its military. Most of the examples you're providing are conscripts versus conscripts, with the exception of the IDF, which has a rather unique need. The world has come a long way from WW2, and conscription doesn't go as far as it used to as technology and its education needs have advanced.

Russian airborne troops are actually well trained and professional as was initial invasion force that got kod by conscripts, you are correct about their low quality of conscripts but thats on organization and russian military sucking in general

Most of my examples are conscripts doing well against pros so im not sure what last part is all about

 

[avenue94]

Russian airborne troops are actually well trained and professional as was initial invasion force that got kod by conscripts, you are correct about their low quality of conscripts but thats on organization and russian military sucking in general

Most of my examples are conscripts doing well against pros so im not sure what last part is all about

That is true, but it doesn't help much if all the supporting and command structures around those non-conscripted troops are struggling with the downsides of conscripts.

But at any rate, my point was if a country needs more troops, the better bet is working on expanding the professional ranks of the military, not padding the numbers with soldiers who don't want to be there and are just doing their 2 or 4 years. That's ignoring the economic costs that come with conscription, which mind you, I'm somewhat sympathetic to national service for civic benefits.

 

[Cole train]

That is true, but it doesn't help much if all the supporting and command structures around those non-conscripted troops are struggling with the downsides of conscripts.

But at any rate, my point was if a country needs more troops, the better bet is working on expanding the professional ranks of the military, not padding the numbers with soldiers who don't want to be there and are just doing their 2 or 4 years. That's ignoring the economic costs that come with conscription, which mind you, I'm somewhat sympathetic to national service for civic benefits.

Oh i agree entirely, its better to have pro military if its possible

I just took issue with the "conscripts are bad soldiers" since we got conscription based militaries who do fine lol

I also think this conscription talk currently going on is politicians way to easy ramp up numbers instead of making pro mil attractive career choice

 

[avenue94]

Oh i agree entirely, its better to have pro military if its possible

I just took issue with the "conscripts are bad soldiers" since we got conscription based militaries who do fine lol

I also think this conscription talk currently going on is politicians way to easy ramp up numbers instead of making pro mil attractive career choice

Yeah, there are certainly cases where conscripts have performed tremendously, but like for like, not the way a country should go if it can avoid it.

 

[jimbob27]

Conscript armies still work pretty well when you've got a single mission you can train them on, which matches the role they'll be performing if war breaks out.

It makes sense for all the countries that border Russia or Switzerland, because their single mission is to learn how to live in a foxhole in the woods and defend their borders against invaders.

It doesn't really make a lot of sense for the British military which specializes in complex taskforces, using combined arms, which require soldiers to be trained in many different missions, all vastly more complicated than sitting in a foxhole and shooting over the parapet.

The conscripts in Hostomel are a perfect example of effective use of conscripts, performing the single mission they were trained on.

The Russian invasion on the whole, is a perfect example of the shit-show you get when badly trained soldiers attempt combined arms missions way beyond their level of competence.

 

[curryjunkie]

It's a complex topic, but believe it or not it's those aged 39+. Labour support drops off a cliff with those aged 40+. But that's based off the 2019 election where the red wall northern voters wanted to kick Labour in the face for what they saw as years or betrayal.

You'd have a better change predicting someone's voting habit based on their background, religion and area they live rather than age alone.

years of betrayal? the tories have been in power since 2010. it was an anti immigrant brexit vote.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

That's pretty funny. I take it their demographic consists almost entirely of the elderly? That's a very, "kids these days!" platform.

I wonder if the British Tories are trying not to win by announcing "Compulsory National Service" that isn't how you will convince young people to vote for your side.

 

[tank666]

Why can't we do what the Russians do and use all the rapists and murderers instead?

 

[PBAC]

Lmao. Good luck with that.

Brits should just send Bishi to Rwanda at this point.

It's odd that most of the antiimmigrant pushers are actually born from immigrants.

Rishi - Indian
Wilders - Indonesian
Caroline van der Plaats - Irish
Trump - married to Russian, Scottish mother

 

[650lb Sumo]

It's odd that most of the antiimmigrant pushers are actually born from immigrants.

Rishi - Indian
Wilders - Indonesian
Caroline van der Plaats - Irish
Trump - married to Russian, Scottish mother

Trump's first wife, Ivana Marie Zelnickova, is a Czech, who moved to Canada before moving to the USA. His second, Maria Maples, was born in the USA, and his third, Melanija Knavs, was born in Yugoslavia (in a part that is now Slovenia). Rishi Sunak also isn't an anti immigrant pusher. I'm not very familiar with the others.

Edit: Trump's mother developed a pseudo-Irish accent:

 

[Sinister]

It's mandatory for men in Switzerland and their society seems to be doing quite well.

May be one of the only ways to help create unity in a forced melting pot society.

Or people could try not being xenophobic racist weirdos. That helps create unity as well. Radical, I know.

 

[PhilMcCavity]

It's mandatory for men in Switzerland and their society seems to be doing quite well.

May be one of the only ways to help create unity in a forced melting pot society.

Teach some discipline to an undisciplined society.

 

[PhilMcCavity]

Or people could try not being xenophobic racist weirdos. That helps create unity as well. Radical, I know.

It’s a fair request, but unrealistic, unfortunately.

 

[Noveltymortar]

If a crazy conspiracy theorist claimed that Rishi is secretly being paid big money by the Labor party to tank the Conservative party I might actually believe it.