Reps

No one even used the term "strength endurance". This isn't a difficult concept. Aren't you a Rippetoe nutthugger? His rep range chart essentially states the same thing. Training at higher reps is obviously going to benefit all of the qualities needed to perform tasks with higher reps. If you going to an event that is going to be 20 RM, you'd be an idiot to not alter your training to focus on higher reps.
 
Oblivian said:
No one even used the term "strength endurance". This isn't a difficult concept. Aren't you a Rippetoe nutthugger? His rep range chart essentially states the same thing. Training at higher reps is obviously going to benefit all of the qualities needed to perform tasks with higher reps. If you going to an event that is going to be 20 RM, you'd be an idiot to not alter your training to focus on higher reps.
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Aside from the insult what does rippetoe have to do with anything in this thread?
 
Poker I highly recommend Joel Jamieson's Ultimate MMA Conditioning book. Even though I was never a conditioning/cardio guy I really liked his approach/book. He does a good job explaining the energy systems.

Joel does a great job explaining different energy systems and how to prioritize different aspects within each energy system. For example you may want to prioritize aerobic, anaerobic alactic, or anaerobic lactic. But more specifically you may want to prioritize capacity training of each system or perhaps rate of energy production. So training muscle endurance can mean very different protocols depending what you're focusing on. You may do long TUT sets and do very long rests, you may do shorter TUT sets and short rests, or some combination of these two.

The average person is probably better off not focusing on absolute strength because while it has carryover on athletic performance and other athletic qualities, that carryover is not nearly as useful overall.

When OP said he feels healthier lifting lighter weights, he's probably right in a way. Lighter weights allows for more crossover into aerobic and anaerobic lactic energy systems. Obviously rotating one's training is probably the best approach.
 
DEVILsSON said:
Poker I highly recommend Joel Jamieson's Ultimate MMA Conditioning book. Even though I was never a conditioning/cardio guy I really liked his approach/book. He does a good job explaining the energy systems.

Joel does a great job explaining different energy systems and how to prioritize different aspects within each energy system. For example you may want to prioritize aerobic, anaerobic alactic, or anaerobic lactic. But more specifically you may want to prioritize capacity training of each system or perhaps rate of energy production. So training muscle endurance can mean very different protocols depending what you're focusing on. You may do long TUT sets and do very long rests, you may do shorter TUT sets and short rests, or some combination of these two.

The average person is probably better off not focusing on absolute strength because while it has carryover on athletic performance and other athletic qualities, that carryover is not nearly as useful overall.

When OP said he feels healthier lifting lighter weights, he's probably right in a way. Lighter weights allows for more crossover into aerobic and anaerobic lactic energy systems. Obviously rotating one's training is probably the best approach.
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I have the book.
 
pokerandbeer said:
You guys are free to do whatever you like of course. I absolutely do not believe your last two sentences though.
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I am not sure why you have an issue with what he said. There's such thing as training specificity. There's obviously 'some' carryover/transfer to other athletic qualities but for the most part, if you train absolute strength you will be best at absolute strength. Likewise if you train for strength endurance/capacity then you'll be best at that and less so at absolute strength.
 
DEVILsSON said:
Poker I highly recommend Joel Jamieson's Ultimate MMA Conditioning book. Even though I was never a conditioning/cardio guy I really liked his approach/book. He does a good job explaining the energy systems.

Joel does a great job explaining different energy systems and how to prioritize different aspects within each energy system. For example you may want to prioritize aerobic, anaerobic alactic, or anaerobic lactic. But more specifically you may want to prioritize capacity training of each system or perhaps rate of energy production. So training muscle endurance can mean very different protocols depending what you're focusing on. You may do long TUT sets and do very long rests, you may do shorter TUT sets and short rests, or some combination of these two.

The average person is probably better off not focusing on absolute strength because while it has carryover on athletic performance and other athletic qualities, that carryover is not nearly as useful overall.

When OP said he feels healthier lifting lighter weights, he's probably right in a way. Lighter weights allows for more crossover into aerobic and anaerobic lactic energy systems. Obviously rotating one's training is probably the best approach.
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I would say training for absolute strength is pretty important to the average person In fact if you only chose to focus on one attribute it should be strength. I do agree that past a certain point you are probably better off focussing on other physical attributes but I do not believe doing high reps exclusively is a good way to do that.

My suspicion is OP is not doing something right with his programming if he feels terrible whether that be recovery or bad programming. I do not think high reps exclusively lead to better health/strength outcomes granted its probably better than doing nothing.
 
Here's a relevant study:



In summary, if you want to rep out a specific weight, e.g.: "I want to rep out 315", then it might on average not make much difference whether you train with low or high reps.

If you want to be able to do higher reps with a specific % of your max consistently, e.g.: "I want to be able to always rep out 80% of my max for 20 reps", then higher rep training might be more clearly helpful.
 
DEVILsSON said:
I am not sure why you have an issue with what he said. There's such thing as training specificity. There's obviously 'some' carryover/transfer to other athletic qualities but for the most part, if you train absolute strength you will be best at absolute strength. Likewise if you train for strength endurance/capacity then you'll be best at that and less so at absolute strength.
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I know a lot of lifters such as Dan Green and Ed Coan have talked specifically about how lifting is a skill, not just a display of strength. Someone squatting 500 lbs may be stronger than someone squatting 550 lbs, but they just aren't as skilled with a barbell on their back and may show their superior strength in other ways/lifts. This tends to be very true when it comes to high reps as well. As I mentioned earlier, 20 rep squats is another beast. There is without a doubt a skill to it, just like most other high rep activities or endurance tests. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there squatting well above mid 400s that could not do 315 lbs x 20 without training for it. I know Joe Sullivan was chasing a big AMRAP on squats and talked specifically about training high rep for it to get the pacing and such down.
 
pokerandbeer said:
Increasing absolute strength makes doing submaximal efforts easier. You do not get stronger by doing nothing but high reps. It is a terrible way to try to increase increase "muscular endurance". The term muscular endurance doesn't actually mean anything. You train for strength and you train endurance separately for whatever your goal is.
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If this were true, then elite PL'ers would dominate WSM.
 
pokerandbeer said:
I would say training for absolute strength is pretty important to the average person In fact if you only chose to focus on one attribute it should be strength. I do agree that past a certain point you are probably better off focussing on other physical attributes but I do not believe doing high reps exclusively is a good way to do that.

My suspicion is OP is not doing something right with his programming if he feels terrible whether that be recovery or bad programming. I do not think high reps exclusively lead to better health/strength outcomes granted its probably better than doing nothing.
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You know the s&c has gone to shit when @pokerandbeer is giving out advice and has become the authority on strength training.
 
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gspieler said:
How is that relevant? PL'ers/WL'ers have the highest 1RM's on the planet. By your logic, we can extrapolate they would also have the best 5/10/20/etc rep maxes.
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It is relevant because you cannot just train high reps and increase strength. You have to have heavy load on the bar to increase strength. This is referencing the OP.
 
spdrew2143 said:
You know the s&c has gone to shit when @pokerandbeer is giving out advice and has become the authority on strength training.
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I don't think I have seen you give much advice ever. Mostly you just lurk the board and look for spots to post sarcastic responses rather than offer up any advice. What is your advice to the OP by the way?
 
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