Recent fights/results/news from Japan II

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Shadess, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. ichibang

    ichibang Black Belt

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    Well, took K-1 long enough to get a reigining Thai champion to fight Takeru.But I doubt Yodkitsada could do much considering the K-1 rule set is so anti Muay Thai that it would take a few fights for any muay thai fighters to get used to.

    But Noiri VS Pikeu? That puts a smile on my face.
     
  2. PERFECT KICKBOXING

    PERFECT KICKBOXING Orange Belt

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    ''Anti Muay Thai''? The rules are just different than Muay Thai, but it's not ''anti'' anything lol. Would be like saying that MMA is ''Anti Muay Thai''.
     
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  3. goronsaki

    goronsaki Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Nice match ups I love how Takeru and Yoshiki are fighting Thais and more international talent now
     
  4. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    " MMA vs K-1" you're comparing apples to oranges though. If you mean UFC then yeah, i don't think UFC is anti muay thai. I wouldn't consider Kunlun Fight which is (mainly) a kickboxing organization anti muay thai.

    I believe K-1 on the other hand has actively designed the rulesets to protect their home fighters, and the refs are also biased to protect the home fighters and the judges sometimes are biased. I mean if a thai grabs the opponents head with two hands he will probably get a warning or a point deduction. It happened to Kaew a couple of times and he was also robbed against Masaaki Noiri. Massaro Glunder who is not even thai got disqualified in a fight in which both guys were clinching. In fact when Glunder got a yellow card, KIDO was the one who initiated the clinch by wrapping his arm arround Glunder's neck. There is no denying K-1 is heavily based, protecting their own fighters. I think they can be considered anti any style that is not japanese but probably mostly against thais because of history and rivalry in martial arts.
     
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  5. ildottore

    ildottore White Belt

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    K-1 specifically taking steps to render the clinch essentially inert might be viewed as anti-Muay Thai. Given that, bringing in a clinch fighter to prop up Takeru is as hilarious as it is unsurprising.
     
  6. PERFECT KICKBOXING

    PERFECT KICKBOXING Orange Belt

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    Being biased is different than a set of rules being ''Anti Thai''. All your example are biased judges and refereeing. That means K-1 is anti (put in all countries except Japan).

    Coming back to the actual being ''Anti Thai'' is just almost not possible.The Thai fighters know damn well which rules are being held and if you do not like those rules, just don't fight there.

    In short: Rules can not possibly be ''Anti-Thai'' just because they are (much) different than the rule set of Muay Thai. That would be saying that MMA rules are só freaking ''Anti Thai'' due to the groundwork. How dare they. I think you meant biased, which is a valid argument.
     
  7. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    You can make the arguement that incremental rules changes that had happened in K-1 greatly inhibited Muay Thai offense (full clinch reduced to single knee reduced to single collar, also inhibited kick catching and sweeps). Doesn't just inhibit MT however as the causes were Semmy, Buakaw, and Overeem. I think Yuta Kubo abused sweeps too much and got them eliminated.
     
  8. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    I wouldn't say "anti thai" either, but i certainly believe it's in many japanese promoters agenda to prove that they are better than thais. I think that's an significant contributing factor to why the rulesets have changed throughout the years to the disadvantage of thais.
     
  9. ildottore

    ildottore White Belt

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    Do they know the rules and scoring criteria? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't given the language barrier. Additionally, kickboxing, in regards to the clinch, doesn't have universal rules and has esoteric and inconsistent officiating.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
    Snubnoze707 likes this.
  10. Yodsanan

    Yodsanan K'FESTA.1

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    I complain about most thais getting signed by K-1. Not happy with Yodbuadaeng, Yodsaenchai and not really happy with Yodkitsada but that's a made up point to fit the "japanese hate muay thai" narrative. some people are reaching in here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  11. ildottore

    ildottore White Belt

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    I remember watching Petpanomrung's trainer talking about his thoughts on kickboxing. He was bewildered by kickboxing and didn't even focus on the restrictions on clinch as a major difference. Both he and Petpanomrung in his Glory interviews harp on a singular point: that kickboxing judges want him to move forward more. That's a horrible misunderstanding of kickboxing.
     
  12. Yodsanan

    Yodsanan K'FESTA.1

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    That's his misunderstanding of kickboxing. Glory handed him scoring criteria and rules, up to him and any other thai to adjust his training and fighting style to the rules.
     
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  13. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    Not really or at least not a bigger misunderstanding than some of the Glory judges. When a guy like Robin Van Roosmalen can win against Sittichai and Petpanomrung just by walking forward, landing some low kicks and punching the air, it makes sense to believe that is what Glory judges look at. Of course, that’s not how it SHOULD be according to Glorys own scoring criteria, but experience shows otherwise. It especially make
     
  14. ichibang

    ichibang Black Belt

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    I think I put things into perspective quite well in my recently necroed kickboxing VS muay thai in a nutshell thread, when it comes to Thai VS Japanese rivalry.

    Back back to my main point. When I say anti muay thai I mean that the rule has been changed so radically from the golden age of K1 (full Thai clinch allowed, sweep allowed) to no clinch/no sweep that it is now "anti muay thai", just like banining headbutt/elbow on the ground in mma is anti wrestler.

    But if you want to talk about history, sure I guess?
    Back when Peter Aerts and Masato were kneeing people to death no ome cares about it. But when Schilt/Buakaw started doing the same? K1 lost their mind and changed the rule.

    I mean come on I can link you to K1 producer Tanikawa talking about the rule change in K1 max just a few days beforw K1 Japan 2005 in February to "challenge" Buakaw.
     
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  15. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    Yeah i don’t think that’s a big thing in Japan but in china on the other hand it’s probably not uncommon with shady rulesets
     
  16. ildottore

    ildottore White Belt

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    I didn't assert that kickboxing orgs don't tell Thais the rules and scoring criteria. Only that they often don't seem to know/understand them perhaps due to a language barrier.

    It's more nuanced than that though. Petrosyan had no trouble winning in Glory.
     
  17. ichibang

    ichibang Black Belt

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    Petro style of fighting is completely different from the Thai though lol. He is also a hometown fighter in Glory with events held in Italy for him to main event.


    Listen I am not seeing that K1 is out to destroy muay thai. I am just saying that its rule set is stupid and anti any muay thai fighter that fight in this promotion. I watch K1 Japan and I know that they are biased against any "non K1" fighter. I have seen fighters getting robbed against Thai K1 fighters like Kaew and Gonnapar. I am just saying that lives of Thai fighters in K1 are really difficult when you are not based in K1 gym.
     
  18. ildottore

    ildottore White Belt

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    I don't disagree with that. But the Thais are aware of Petro, so the conclusion that moving forward is a must is strange. I think Petpanomrung or Sittichai specifically said he looked to Petrosyan's fight against Robin.
     
  19. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    Yeah it’s definitely more nuanced than Petrosyan having no problem winning because Petrosyan was outclassing his opponents but he is also not thai so refs, judges and commentators aren’t biased against him. Petpanomrung got a point deduction in Glory when the other guy (i believe it was against Van Nostrand and against Zouggary) was clinching just as much as he was. Commentators are constantly talking about how thais have bad boxing skills when in fact, Sittichai and Petpanomrung have some of the slickest hands in Glory. Even when they (should have according to Glory scoring criteria) won by a wide margin the judges somehow thought RvR won and even RvR himself thought thais were one dimensional fighters. All of this just goes to show how pretty much everyone, fighters, judges, refs, commentarors are biased against thais. If a thai fought exactly like Petrosyan i highly doubt he would not have gotten robbed once.

    In the case of western european kickboxing this is partly because of ignorance and false stereotypes about thai fighters and partly due to incompetence from the guys involved. One can speculate there is also some patriotism going on aswell.

    This would be supported by some kickboxers that were given gift decisions against thais in the past (Yodsanklai, Buakaw, Pajonsuk, Petpanomrung, Sittichai) but glory also had a lot of robberies were patriotism did not seem to be involved like when Ilunga and Meksen were robbed so i think it varies from case to case.

    However i do believe Sittichai and Petpanomrung understand well what the scoring should look like according to the official scoring criteria in Glory, but they’re probably right that as a thai, in order to make sure judges won’t Rob you you have to walk forward more and use your hands more. Their first fight with RvR showed that they did understand the scoring criteria since they were landing the more damaging shots and should have won according to scoring criteria, but the reality is you have to understand the judges. If they’re biased against you, it’s probably better to start walking forward more.

    Idk much avout enfusion but i remember Buakaw and Jomthong were robbed there. To be honest i haven’t looked into it too much i don’t really know why they thought it was a good idea to rob them.

    In french muay thai, there seem to be some heavy patriotism as the french are frequently being given gift decisions against thai but wouldn’t necessarily cal in anti-thai, they just want to be recognized as just as good as thais.

    In Japan i also think the patriotism is a stronger factor because of the rule changes as i said before and also because of their past rivalry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  20. PERFECT KICKBOXING

    PERFECT KICKBOXING Orange Belt

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    Damn, those are a lot of reactions in 1 day. Not going to respond to every single one, but what I read is what I kinda said. It's more a biased thing (which can be said about every promoter) and definitely not a ''Anti-Thai'' thing. Rules change, get used to it.

    If thai fighters get destroyed it's their own fault just like someone stated earlier how Glory says what the rules are, it's the same with K-1. Being biased judges or referees is something completely different.
     

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