MT/KB Japan Recent fights/results/news from Japan II

[Deleted member 363827]

I think I put things into perspective quite well in my recently necroed kickboxing VS muay thai in a nutshell thread, when it comes to Thai VS Japanese rivalry.

Back back to my main point. When I say anti muay thai I mean that the rule has been changed so radically from the golden age of K1 (full Thai clinch allowed, sweep allowed) to no clinch/no sweep that it is now "anti muay thai", just like banining headbutt/elbow on the ground in mma is anti wrestler.

But if you want to talk about history, sure I guess?
Back when Peter Aerts and Masato were kneeing people to death no ome cares about it. But when Schilt/Buakaw started doing the same? K1 lost their mind and changed the rule.

I mean come on I can link you to K1 producer Tanikawa talking about the rule change in K1 max just a few days beforw K1 Japan 2005 in February to "challenge" Buakaw.

 

[Kanka]

Do they know the rules and scoring criteria? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't given the language barrier. Additionally, kickboxing, in regards to the clinch, doesn't have universal rules and has esoteric and inconsistent officiating.

I complain about most thais getting signed by K-1. Not happy with Yodbuadaeng, Yodsaenchai and not really happy with Yodkitsada but that's a made up point to fit the "japanese hate muay thai" narrative. some people are reaching in here.

Yeah i don’t think that’s a big thing in Japan but in china on the other hand it’s probably not uncommon with shady rulesets

 

[ildottore]

That's his misunderstanding of kickboxing. Glory handed him scoring criteria and rules, up to him and any other thai to adjust his training and fighting style to the rules.

I didn't assert that kickboxing orgs don't tell Thais the rules and scoring criteria. Only that they often don't seem to know/understand them perhaps due to a language barrier.

Not really or at least not a bigger misunderstanding than the Glory judges. When a guy like Robin Van Roosmalen can win against Sittichai and Petpanomrung just by walking forward, landing some low kicks and punching the air, it makes sense to believe that is what Glory judges look at. Of course, that’s not how it SHOULD be according to Glorys own scoring criteria, but experience shows otherwise.

It's more nuanced than that though. Petrosyan had no trouble winning in Glory.

 

[Deleted member 363827]

Petro style of fighting is completely different from the Thai though lol. He is also a hometown fighter in Glory with events held in Italy for him to main event.


Listen I am not seeing that K1 is out to destroy muay thai. I am just saying that its rule set is stupid and anti any muay thai fighter that fight in this promotion. I watch K1 Japan and I know that they are biased against any "non K1" fighter. I have seen fighters getting robbed against Thai K1 fighters like Kaew and Gonnapar. I am just saying that lives of Thai fighters in K1 are really difficult when you are not based in K1 gym.

 

[ildottore]

Petro style of fighting is completely different from the Thai though lol. He is also a hometown fighter in Glory with events held in Italy for him to main event.

I don't disagree with that. But the Thais are aware of Petro, so the conclusion that moving forward is a must is strange. I think Petpanomrung or Sittichai specifically said he looked to Petrosyan's fight against Robin.

 

[Kanka]

I didn't assert that kickboxing orgs don't tell him the rules. Only that he didn't know/understand them perhaps due to a language barrier.



It's more nuanced than that though. Petrosyan had no trouble winning in Glory.

Yeah it’s definitely more nuanced than Petrosyan having no problem winning because Petrosyan was outclassing his opponents but he is also not thai so refs, judges and commentators aren’t biased against him. Petpanomrung got a point deduction in Glory when the other guy (i believe it was against Van Nostrand and against Zouggary) was clinching just as much as he was. Commentators are constantly talking about how thais have bad boxing skills when in fact, Sittichai and Petpanomrung have some of the slickest hands in Glory. Even when they (should have according to Glory scoring criteria) won by a wide margin the judges somehow thought RvR won and even RvR himself thought thais were one dimensional fighters. All of this just goes to show how pretty much everyone, fighters, judges, refs, commentarors are biased against thais. If a thai fought exactly like Petrosyan i highly doubt he would not have gotten robbed once.

In the case of western european kickboxing this is partly because of ignorance and false stereotypes about thai fighters and partly due to incompetence from the guys involved. One can speculate there is also some patriotism going on aswell.

This would be supported by some kickboxers that were given gift decisions against thais in the past (Yodsanklai, Buakaw, Pajonsuk, Petpanomrung, Sittichai) but glory also had a lot of robberies were patriotism did not seem to be involved like when Ilunga and Meksen were robbed so i think it varies from case to case.

However i do believe Sittichai and Petpanomrung understand well what the scoring should look like according to the official scoring criteria in Glory, but they’re probably right that as a thai, in order to make sure judges won’t Rob you you have to walk forward more and use your hands more. Their first fight with RvR showed that they did understand the scoring criteria since they were landing the more damaging shots and should have won according to scoring criteria, but the reality is you have to understand the judges. If they’re biased against you, it’s probably better to start walking forward more.

Idk much avout enfusion but i remember Buakaw and Jomthong were robbed there. To be honest i haven’t looked into it too much i don’t really know why they thought it was a good idea to rob them.

In french muay thai, there seem to be some heavy patriotism as the french are frequently being given gift decisions against thai but wouldn’t necessarily cal in anti-thai, they just want to be recognized as just as good as thais.

In Japan i also think the patriotism is a stronger factor because of the rule changes as i said before and also because of their past rivalry.

 

[PERFECT KICKBOXING]

Damn, those are a lot of reactions in 1 day. Not going to respond to every single one, but what I read is what I kinda said. It's more a biased thing (which can be said about every promoter) and definitely not a ''Anti-Thai'' thing. Rules change, get used to it.

If thai fighters get destroyed it's their own fault just like someone stated earlier how Glory says what the rules are, it's the same with K-1. Being biased judges or referees is something completely different.

 

[Shadess]

Yeah it’s definitely more nuanced than Petrosyan having no problem winning because Petrosyan was outclassing his opponents but he is also not thai so refs, judges and commentators aren’t biased against him. Petpanomrung got a point deduction in Glory when the other guy (i believe it was against Van Nostrand and against Zouggary) was clinching just as much as he was.

All of this just goes to show how pretty much everyone, fighters, judges, refs, commentarors are biased against thais. If a thai fought exactly like Petrosyan i highly doubt he would not have gotten robbed once.

In the case of western european kickboxing this is partly because of ignorance and false stereotypes about thai fighters and partly due to incompetence from the guys involved. One can speculate there is also some patriotism going on aswell.

However i do believe Sittichai and Petpanomrung understand well what the scoring should look like according to the official scoring criteria in Glory, but they’re probably right that as a thai, in order to make sure judges won’t Rob you you have to walk forward more and use your hands more.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

You take one-offs with Thai's as proof for some international bias against Thai fighters...

but he is also not thai so refs, judges and commentators aren’t biased against him
----
All of this just goes to show how pretty much everyone, fighters, judges, refs, commentarors are biased against thais.

P4P some of the dumbest lines I have seen on this forum.

Fighters are biased against Thais?

 

[Shadess]

Levin-Marcus
Meksen-Menezes

?

 

[Mafanofe]

K-1 Festa 2 isnt stacked as the 1st but isnt bad, Koji vs Ryusei makes a LOT of sense,they should book this fight also, would bring a lot of attention.

 

[Kanka]

What the fuck are you even talking about?

You take one-offs with Thai's as proof for some international bias against Thai fighters...

but he is also not thai so refs, judges and commentators aren’t biased against him
----
All of this just goes to show how pretty much everyone, fighters, judges, refs, commentarors are biased against thais.

P4P some of the dumbest lines I have seen on this forum.

Fighters are biased against Thais?

I phrased that wrong, my bad. I didn't mean that every person is biased, but it exists among all of those groups of people. Fighters, judges, refs, commentators etc and there are enough of them to have an impact on the fight results. It's not really that dumb that's how cognitive bias works. It's not necessarily something you do actively or even consiously. How else would you explain refs giving out warnings to thais when the other opponent was also clinching ? It happened many times. If you strongly believe that thais can't adapt to kickboxing and must resort to clinching it's just logical to think the thai is the one always initiating the clinch. The point i was making was that in Glory it happens becasue of cognitive bias and ignorance, not because they're anti-thai. Please explain why you think this idea is so dumb.

 

[Shadess]

How would you explain Levin being deducted points when same happened with Marcus?

Meksen-Menezes. As far as I know Meksen isn't a Thai?

Glunder has had odd point deductions multiple times.

My point is this has fuck all to do with anyone's nationality. It's just inconsistent officiating all around.
I can't think of any real reason why judges and referees of multiple nationalities would have some weirdo bias against Thai's specifically.

 

[Shadess]

Like we lost Levin from Glory 100% because of a terrible referee making multiple awful calls in a fight.
vs.
There are currently 2 reigning Thai champions in Glory.

But somehow there's all this bias against Thai's, specifically.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You have to look at things in a super narrow way to somehow limit this to be a bias against Thais.

 

[Kanka]

Like we lost Levin from Glory 100% because of a terrible referee making multiple awful calls in a fight.
vs.
There are currently 2 reigning Thai champions in Glory.

But somehow there's all this bias against Thai's, specifically.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You have to look at things in a super narrow way to somehow limit this to be a bias against Thais.

Did i ever say inconsistent judging is not a factor? Pretty sure i mentioned Meksen and Ilunga that got robbed and also mentionee incompetence among officials. Idk if you’re misikterpreting my post or not because i never narrowed bad decisions down to only being because of bias against thais that it significantly impacts the outcome of some fights though. And i specifically named thais because that’s how this discussion started, because someone said K-1 is anti-thai.

Just to be clear about your opinion, do you think there is absolutely no cognitive bias against thai fighters?

 

[PERFECT KICKBOXING]

Just to be clear about your opinion, do you think there is absolutely no cognitive bias against thai fighters?

That's a trap lol. Don't eat it

 

[Deleted member 363827]

Well, let's move on from this mess.

Anyway 2019 is going to be an awesome year for Japanese kickboxing fans.

You got stacked Rise tournament (with Tenshin, Suakim, Rodtung, etc), great K-1 match up (Takeru VS Yodkitsada) and even ONE is making its move to Japan.

What is really interesting about Takeru VS Yodkitsada fight is that you can see Takeru is quite nervous about this fight. This is his TenshinVSWanchalong moment, Yodkitsada is literally the first quality opponent with name value outside of K-1, he ever faces. I have no doubt that Takeru will win with all the advantage he has (exp. in K-1 ring, K-1 judges/ref, home country, Yodkitsada's management team going to be stupid and book fights a few weeks before this fight), but how he wins is going to affect how he will be perceived by Japanese fans as compared to Tenshin.

Beating a great Thai fighter is a gigantic stepping stone toward super stardom for any Japanese kickboxer in Japan from the time of Kobayashi, Masato, Tenshin, etc.

 

[Kanka]

Well, let's move on from this mess.

Anyway 2019 is going to be an awesome year for Japanese kickboxing fans.

You got stacked Rise tournament (with Tenshin, Suakim, Rodtung, etc), great K-1 match up (Takeru VS Yodkitsada) and even ONE is making its move to Japan.

What is really interesting about Takeru VS Yodkitsada fight is that you can see Takeru is quite nervous about this fight. This is his TenshinVSWanchalong moment, Yodkitsada is literally the first quality opponent with name value outside of K-1, he ever faces. I have no doubt that Takeru will win with all the advantage he has (exp. in K-1 ring, K-1 judges/ref, home country, Yodkitsada's management team going to be stupid and book fights a few weeks before this fight), but how he wins is going to affect how he will be perceived by Japanese fans as compared to Tenshin.

Beating a great Thai fighter is a gigantic stepping stone toward super stardom for any Japanese kickboxer in Japan from the time of Kobayashi, Masato, Tenshin, etc.

Just based on what i’ve seen of Yodkitsada i Takeru will beat Yodkitsada fair and square without anu ref or judges help. But since Yodkitsada has a really big head i just ignorantly guess he has a good chin and perhaps can take Takeru’s punches and make the fight look similar to Tenshin vs Rodtang.

 

[lukeuidswords]

Just based on what i’ve seen of Yodkitsada i Takeru will beat Yodkitsada fair and square without anu ref or judges help. But since Yodkitsada has a really big head i just ignorantly guess he has a good chin and perhaps can take Takeru’s punches and make the fight look similar to Tenshin vs Rodtang.

Yodkitsada isnt nearly as adept as Rodtang at range though, I dont think Takeru will have much trouble with him

 

[Kanka]

Yodkitsada isnt nearly as adept as Rodtang at range though, I dont think Takeru will have much trouble with him

I agree but what i mean is rather the way Rodtang took all those punches

 

[NidNoi]

Yodkitsada's management team going to be stupid and book fights a few weeks before this fight

Only Yodkitsada ? LOL All Thai-fighters do like this. Don't worry.

Pakorn'd been booked fight in Japan but he accepted another muay thai fight that would take place near.