Real Muay Thai

@ARIZE
Despite liking punching at the end of the day, the other tools do a better job. While I do have a nasty right, most of the time hands are just a setup for more juicy stuff
 
ARIZE said:
I love long knees. Specially when they "run" into it themselves while pressuring with punches. High tight guard when they pressure with a long knee as a counter is not that hard to pull off. Or even long guard to enter the clinch after your knee. Also against people who kinda rush the clinch from a longer distance than what would be safe for them.
On the other hand, I am not a big volume knee machine inside the clinch. I work more with unbalancing them, and making opportunities for the elbows. Off course i will throw them when I have the opportunity, but I dont really rely on them.
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muay khao for the win.
 
@shincheckin

I like kicking wars, so i think i am mostly a Muay Tae. But if he tries to close the distance, I make him pay in the transition with piercing knees, and stepping elbows, then close the distance quickly to a clinch. In the clinch, I don't really use much the knees, so I wouldn't say I am Muay Khao, but more Muay Sok for the elbows. But I have my phases. At some point I worked a lot the knee inside, but not anymore. I feel that the elbows scare people more and will be more hesitant to enter the clinch if it's not really their primary style, so they will also hesitate to close the distance to a boxing one, letting me work my kicks from outside.
So basically, I take points from the distance with kicks, I do damage inside the clinch with elbows.
In my "youth", I was a lot more aggressive, now I dont chase people around, just wait for them in the center...

@j123
That's what I believe too, and saying it in here, to a point I look like a troll. MT has so much better weapons than punches, and so much answers to boxing styles, that I don't see the point on focusing on them when you learn basics. If you have a student that really excel in punching, then yes, work with him on that. But most of the times, its not necessary to teach boxing mentality for MT.
As you said, punches can be great set ups. Or maybe finishers if he is too "out" of it to clinch you. But you wont go there with punches only, you wont score points with punches. (yeah I know, I know, insert X fighter here who dominate his opponents with boxing... THOSE WERE EXCEPTIONS, you don't teach exceptions as basics, you don't teach RJJ to beginners in boxing...)
 
Of the amatuer MT matches I've seen, the better boxer has a HUGE advantage.

As skills increase with kicking, elbowing, clinching, kneeing... It starts to even out a bit.

Muay Mat still makes up some of my favorite fighters though. Heavy hands and Heavy kicks! Viva Manachai!

 
ctrlaltdelete said:
Of the amatuer MT matches I've seen, the better boxer has a HUGE advantage.
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Good point, but I think its more luck than anything, at the local shows when you see guys that have had their first or a few fights, they typically just go in there and swing all wild and brawl, someone ends up getting clipped and put down. I almsot feel like im more likely to see someone get dropped there than when th experienced guys fight.
 
ctrlaltdelete said:
Of the amatuer MT matches I've seen, the better boxer has a HUGE advantage.

As skills increase with kicking, elbowing, clinching, kneeing... It starts to even out a bit.

Muay Mat still makes up some of my favorite fighters though. Heavy hands and Heavy kicks! Viva Manachai!

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depends, they do better as they more exp'd. Early on, it's not a favorable asset, esp. if they're too boxing oriented. Guys like this get dominated in the clinch badly. Dunno why people always bring up leg kicks messing up boxers in the ammy scene, when its the clinch that rapes them

Boxing skillset starts to really shine when you get into guys nearing A-class with about 7+ fights. The only exception to this I've seen, are guys who have been training for 10 years, go through years of gym wars, then take their fight ammy fight as a 0-0 guy. But then again, that's really more of a seasoned guy going in against average novices
 
j123 said:
depends, they do better as they more exp'd. Early on, it's not a favorable asset, esp. if they're too boxing oriented. Guys like this get dominated in the clinch badly. Dunno why people always bring up leg kicks messing up boxers in the ammy scene, when its the clinch that rapes them

Boxing skillset starts to really shine when you get into guys nearing A-class with about 7+ fights. The only exception to this I've seen, are guys who have been training for 10 years, go through years of gym wars, then take their fight ammy fight as a 0-0 guy. But then again, that's really more of a seasoned guy going in against average novices
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Theres a reason why, generally speaking, the thais are lacking in the hand department, and strong kickers and clinchers
 
shincheckin said:
Theres a reason why, generally speaking, the thais are lacking in the hand department, and strong kickers and clinchers
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Yeah, hands are good to have, but in the grand scheme of things, the other areas are more of a priority. Body hooks I just don't see how they compare unless its done amazingly. Elbows are nastier and faster; Having done damage to opponents with elbows while they try to work my body I don't see much use for it. It's more of cake dressing for me. And at that range you'll get them in the clinch so its not going to do any damage there

Now in MMA its a bit different with grappling being involved, so boxing works better than MT
 
j123 said:
Yeah, hands are good to have, but in the grand scheme of things, the other areas are more of a priority. Body hooks I just don't see how they compare unless its done amazingly. Elbows are nastier and faster; Having done damage to opponents with elbows while they try to work my body I don't see much use for it. It's more of cake dressing for me. And at that range you'll get them in the clinch so its not going to do any damage there

Now in MMA its a bit different with grappling being involved, so boxing works better than MT
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exactly.....boxing for MT is what striking is for MMA......meaning for MMA ground is more of a priority.
 
ctrlaltdelete said:
Of the amatuer MT matches I've seen, the better boxer has a HUGE advantage.

As skills increase with kicking, elbowing, clinching, kneeing... It starts to even out a bit.

Muay Mat still makes up some of my favorite fighters though. Heavy hands and Heavy kicks! Viva Manachai!

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Scary guys, but this is one-dimensional beyond solid basic drills.
 
KarateStylist said:
Scary guys, but this is one-dimensional beyond solid basic drills.
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That's the point. Fundamentals work. Flashy kicks are nice. But these guys will kill basically anyone with a basic round kick.

Its the same reason my last opponent who was a 7th degree blackbelt was limping the next day.
 
Kenneth Andrews said:
That's the point. Fundamentals work. Flashy kicks are nice. But these guys will kill basically anyone with a basic round kick.

Its the same reason my last opponent who was a 7th degree blackbelt was limping the next day.
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Hi Ken.\\\

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. It's not an issue with the drill based skill these MT practitioners are showing. It's the one-dimensional nature of their approach should the pad holder be an actual opponent. As your final sentence so indicates forum fodder wise.

Certainly this is an excellent ad for Muay Thai technique and it's much heralded physical conditioning as well.
 
Kenneth Andrews said:
Its the same reason my last opponent who was a 7th degree blackbelt was limping the next day.
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WoW, how old is he? That's really hard to get this rank + these minimal age + common minimal time limits between Dan ranks.
In what style/ Art he does have this rank?
 
SandisLL said:
I'm just curious that you think I'm so cheap to be provocated.
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LOL I'm not trying to provoke, i just want to know who specifically they refer to when they say those kinds of things.

Is it weird to ask for clarification? I always read these comments, but very rarely any names.
 
It's not that you can't find a good mt school in the west. But it would be like comparing US wrestling, vs Thailand wrestling. Thailand might have some good wrestling schools, but as a whole they can't be compared.
 
Kanka said:
Is it weird to ask for clarification? I always read these comments, but very rarely any names.
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Questions like that in contexts like this are kind of trick questions.

Ask someone for names; what sort of names are someone most likely to remember? Probably most prominent high level guys; guys who likely, amongst many other virtues, probably have pretty good hands as well, even if not specialized there.

But exceptional guys are naturally just that: exceptions. So such would also run contrary to the aim in the first place of making more general observations; about the thousands and tens of thousands of guys whose names you don't remember, which would form the expressions of characteristic trends in a tradition.
 
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