Real Muay Thai

Please point where I made some false claims?
You didn't. But that was what i was arguing against the whole time. Shincheckin said "thais lack in the hands department" and i don't think that's accurate. Anyway i already laid out all my arguments, i'm done with the discussion until anyone provides some legit counter-arguments.
 
Well, if about pro boxers, there are/ were good guys from Thailand but I don't know had they training in MT too or only boxing training.
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I'm not that involved in MT at all.
Use elbows and knees there other arts too have plenty a lot but rules for tournaments are rules, otherwise DQ.
As for KB not rarerly if guy from TMAs does come in or initially for sport KB, not rarerly boxing training is used too.
I for example had lack in the hands depertament against other KB guys and plenty of guys too.
Then additional training in boxing helps a lot.
Especially because different rulers for clinch.
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For example if guy landed on me and I clinched him, under even more leneient rules I can cick him once and should release in 3 sec or 5 sec.
Ref will break clinch and if I didn't recovered enough when he allowed continue, guy will beat me even easier, for example with hooks etc.
Under MT rules I can keep clinch longer to recover more, can kick with knee not only once, rotate him.
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Common techniques are long range punch with step forward, like Cosmo vs Sage.
Owerhead, hooks, deep hooks, half hooks, half uppercuts, uppercuts.
For example like in boxing bout Charr vs Briedis ( this is former amateur kick boxer not only former amateur boxer ).
These bouts provide what kind of punches are characteristic also for euro ammy KB.
Next approach: boxing stylish or TMAish straights ( I once posted link where pointed how to use vertical and horizontal fist but this was done by not famous in fourms boxing coach ).
Hands pressing in chin or orbital bones: if isn't possible owecome guard, sometimes if a guy keep glove close to chin and preferably in line that enables decent contact, beating is done on opponent glove with intent to press his hand into his chin.
Contact with orbital bones is hard to achieve, but too, not rarerly when blocked kicks, more rare punches.
In forums it is considered as noobs mistake, but it not always is truth that only noobs suffer from this.
I also posted some links with euro KB guys bouts, but It didn't had interest, most likely because they aren't Tyson or Buakaw etc.
 
Well, if about pro boxers, there are/ were good guys from Thailand but I don't know had they training in MT too or only boxing training.
-
I'm not that involved in MT at all.
Use elbows and knees there other arts too have plenty a lot but rules for tournaments are rules, otherwise DQ.
As for KB not rarerly if guy from TMAs does come in or initially for sport KB, not rarerly boxing training is used too.
I for example had lack in the hands depertament against other KB guys and plenty of guys too.
Then additional training in boxing helps a lot.
Especially because different rulers for clinch.
-
For example if guy landed on me and I clinched him, under even more leneient rules I can cick him once and should release in 3 sec or 5 sec.
Ref will break clinch and if I didn't recovered enough when he allowed continue, guy will beat me even easier, for example with hooks etc.
Under MT rules I can keep clinch longer to recover more, can kick with knee not only once, rotate him.
--
Common techniques are long range punch with step forward, like Cosmo vs Sage.
Owerhead, hooks, deep hooks, half hooks, half uppercuts, uppercuts.
For example like in boxing bout Charr vs Briedis ( this is former amateur kick boxer not only former amateur boxer ).
These bouts provide what kind of punches are characteristic also for euro ammy KB.
Next approach: boxing stylish or TMAish straights ( I once posted link where pointed how to use vertical and horizontal fist but this was done by not famous in fourms boxing coach ).
Hands pressing in chin or orbital bones: if isn't possible owecome guard, sometimes if a guy keep glove close to chin and preferably in line that enables decent contact, beating is done on opponent glove with intent to press his hand into his chin.
Contact with orbital bones is hard to achieve, but too, not rarerly when blocked kicks, more rare punches.
In forums it is considered as noobs mistake, but it not always is truth that only noobs suffer from this.
I also posted some links with euro KB guys bouts, but It didn't had interest, most likely because they aren't Tyson or Buakaw etc.
<Huh2>
 
U don't have anything to tell, just copy pasted and placed meme?
Welcome to my ignore list.
I can tell you don’t know much about Muay Thai if you are throwing out general statements like they lack in the hands department. Muay Thai is a ring sport with different styles, Thais tend to fall into one of these categories: kick heavy style, knee/clinch style, boxing style, heavy punching style and all around style like some of the greats (Samart Payakaroon who was a WBC champion as well, Saenchai who was a undefeated PABA champion before going back to Muay Thai, etc. )

You threw a wall of text trying to simplify something very complex not to mention you say I’m not very involved in MT and you didn’t know the pro boxers from Thailand trained Muay Thai as well yet felt the need to make a generalization about the sport.
 
not to mention you say I’m not very involved in MT and you didn’t know the pro boxers from Thailand trained Muay Thai as well yet felt the need to make a generalization about the sport.
I can't know about all pro boxers or sit in internet to research them without reason.
* I do Search usually if a) someone point me this boxer with reason for me to dig about him deeper.
b) he will do bout on card that I want to watch.
c) or I have another ( real life reasons ) to do it.
For example I watched one event twice only to see one gentleman's corner work for one of undercard bout and now digged vids to see ….how he had done corner work in another bouts.
I'll watch these also twice and for a reason.
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Sorry, I assumed that again KS like posts will appear in row.
 
Well, if about pro boxers, there are/ were good guys from Thailand but I don't know had they training in MT too or only boxing training.
I posted some videos of full-time muay thai fighters that had a parallel boxing career aswell :)






And then where are other guys that quit their muay thai career to pursue boxing (Khaosai Galaxy, Wanheng Menayothin, Knockout CP Freshmart etc) but that is a different story.
 
You threw a wall of text trying to simplify something very complex not to mention you say I’m not very involved in MT and you didn’t know the pro boxers from Thailand trained Muay Thai as well yet felt the need to make a generalization about the sport.
I never hided that I'm not MT specialist and months ago mentioned this in some posts, guys here know it. There's already antoher theme where MT is mentioned, these guys that discussed it, too had read that I'm not MT specialist. This isn't secret here.
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However if about european KB and abilities of these kick boxers, especially these had trained and competed also in amateur boxing….
Also generalized opinions.
Ppl feel the need to make a genralisation about the sport and then...all is fine.
(Khaosai Galaxy, Wanheng Menayothin, Knockout CP Freshmart etc) but that is a different story.
Yes, about these boxers I'll read, thank you ….
I'll maybe will watch a bit vids ( later ).
 
Here we have this guy Petchdam. Does he have bad hands? No, not elite but pretty good i'd say. Can he improve his boxing skills by focusing more on that aspect? Of course. Just as any non-thai muay thai fighter/kickboxer could also improve it.
 
This is crazy of course that there is true muay thai in the united state. We have several Thai people teaching Muaythai in the United States. It was Westerners who really know Muaythai.
 
For majority of MMA gyms (esp in the states) the striking taught is for the most part Dutch KB and and heavy emphasis on boxing. Dutch KB, their stance is very forward heavy compared to MT (their origins come from KK karate). You see it in their low kicks especially. They'll "crouch" down as they put weight into the kick. MT is usually very upright in stance overall with heavy use of teeps and middle kicks. Personally if I don't see teep usage or clinchwork I can't really say it's MT. It's striking, but not really MT. Dutch KB carries over to MMA better than pure MT just by how forward they are.

From a business side lots of gyms write it off as Muay Thai to get people on board. So that's taken into consideration

As for the quality being much different, it's MMA. You have to cover so much bases in a short amount of time and you can't really do well across the board. Also, MMA is a grapplers sport first. The sport is also quite young compared to others.

Let's use Brazilian Muay Thai as the example. It's roots are TKD guys who dabbled slightly into MT, then decided to add some extra bits onto their regimen, and they rebranded themselves as Brazilian MT. Decades later it's what people see, and it's assumed it's MT, they're throwing leg kicks, knees so to the average person, it looks pretty in line


Well put, mate. but i will say this.. alot of gyms that try to say they teach dutch style are full of it. they really dont know that style. if you havent been to holland, or learned from the best guys that has been doing that style for decades, youre just as big of a farce. luckily my coach has been with lucien carbin for almost 20 years. he really knows the game and translates it to mma best i think.
 
Well put, mate. but i will say this.. alot of gyms that try to say they teach dutch style are full of it. they really dont know that style. if you havent been to holland, or learned from the best guys that has been doing that style for decades, youre just as big of a farce. luckily my coach has been with lucien carbin for almost 20 years. he really knows the game and translates it to mma best i think.
Sure, the anointed few @ TSF who have the 'in.'

My Dojo hasn't been in business for decades on end. The instructors know the art.

<Oku01>Also, I extended my losing streak in Randori...
 
We sent 16 fighters to the IFMA world championships in Bangkok last August and won 12 medals. (8 gold). So if we are beating Thais, Russians, and Europeans in Thailand, does that make our Muay Thai better?
<Oku03>Wow. I'm with you on this one. Any country can excel @ martial arts. It's a matter of digging deep, which most Americans don't.

I think it's useful to keep the originating culture as a yardstick, excellence however, knows no bounds.
 
Sure, the anointed few @ TSF who have the 'in.'

My Dojo hasn't been in business for decades on end. The instructors know the art.

<Oku01>Also, I extended my losing streak in Randori...

i just seen it so many times. i even trained with mark beecher and he tried teaching that style when he really only knows muay thai. its not the same
 
I think it's a matter of perspective as well. America has great wrestling - it's ingrained in the culture of America in the same way that boxing is in Mexico and my home in the UK. Asian martial arts are scene as 'self defence' or a hobby in the west, there's something foreign and different about it.
Excellent post!
 
i just seen it so many times. i even trained with mark beecher and he tried teaching that style when he really only knows muay thai. its not the same
Prolly right. Can look @ it both ways. Those thai camps make a case for homegrown Muay Thai.<{1-8}>
 
Well put, mate. but i will say this.. alot of gyms that try to say they teach dutch style are full of it. they really dont know that style. if you havent been to holland, or learned from the best guys that has been doing that style for decades, youre just as big of a farce. luckily my coach has been with lucien carbin for almost 20 years. he really knows the game and translates it to mma best i think.
Well lucien carbin has a background in muay thai, kyoyushin and also fought savate fighters. Fighters back in the day like Rob Kaman, Remy Bonjasky and Ernesto hoost were much more dynamic compared to what has become known as "dutch style" today.

Different dutch gyms have different styles, but the most typical dutch style today is based on a tight guard, punch combinations and low kicks. This style is not superior to Muay Thai-based striking, even for kickboxing.
 
Guys in thailand that are naturally talented with their hands tend to go into boxing. The money's better.
 
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