Ranking the Female GOATS

Mmmmmmma1234 said:
The same applies to Zhang's dominant wins over Andrade, Tecia and Carla. Both are 2-0 (1ko) vs jj for common opponents.
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I don't recall Zhangs win over tecia being particularly dominant tbh, and she just Starched Andrade. It wasn't really dominant. She ran through her.
 
Gamer2k4 said:
I guess it comes down to how you weigh things. Plenty of factors contribute to greatness, such as longevity, strength of schedule, win/loss ratio, finish rate, title defenses, and so on. To me, comparing head-to-head records would only come into play as a tiebreaker, if all else was equal. I think you know this, too, or else you'd rank Carla above Rose, and I doubt you do. (To put it into words, "Sure Carla won twice, but Rose is obviously still the better fighter.")

When I compare Rose to Joanna or Weili, the latter two have the edge in pretty much every category. Rose's only advantage over each is that she beat them, and that just doesn't hold enough weight for me when the question is "greatest of all time."
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What categories would that be that they have all the advantages over Rose? I mean I'm not sure I disagree with you I'm just curious
 
Kyojiro Kagenuma said:
Yes they both did lose non championship fights lol tho.
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Kyojiro Kagenuma said:
Yes they both did lose non championship fights lol tho.
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I keep forgetting the Joanna Zhang rematch was non-title. However, point stands, Weili & Joanna have never lost to someone who hasn't touched the belt, Rose has a bunch of losses to fighters who've never held gold.

And you're still wrong, Zhang has never lost a non-title fight in the UFC. Rose has non-title losses all over the place. I know you're a Rose fanboy, but fucking hell, do you really have to suck up this hard? When you have to nit-pick this hard to try & buy her a "win" it's pretty clear that Rose is not in the picture.
 
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aerius said:
I keep forgetting the Joanna Zhang rematch was non-title. However, point stands, Weili & Joanna have never lost to someone who hasn't touched the belt, Rose has a bunch of losses to fighters who've never held gold.
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@aerius has entered the brain busting debate.
 
Nunes at 1 and Shev at 2.

Everything else is water under the bridge
 
Kyojiro Kagenuma said:
What categories would that be that they have all the advantages over Rose? I mean I'm not sure I disagree with you I'm just curious
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Well, of the ones I listed, their longevity is about equal (12 years for Rose to 12 years for Weili to 10 for Joanna - though Rose has another 3 years of amateur experience and Joanna has another 6 years of kickboxing/Muay Thai experience). I give the strength of schedule edge to Joanna and Weili because, being champions, they had more fights against top contenders (plus, as someone else pointed out, they had more success than Rose against common opponents). For win/loss ratio, you're looking at 14-7 (Rose) to 26-3 (Weili) to 16-5 (Joanna). For finish rate, it's 50% to 73% to 31% - Rose beats Joanna there but falls well short of Weili. For title defenses, it's Rose 2, Weili 4, Joanna 5.

Of the categories I listed above, Rose is the best at only one of them - longevity - and even that's tied with Weili. She's last everywhere else except finish rate. Weili is top in longevity (tied), W/L ratio, and finish rate. She's second only in title defenses, and last nowhere. Joanna is behind Weili in most categories but still beats Rose in strength of schedule, W/L ratio, and title defenses (where she's first).

Again, different people weigh criteria differently (and might have their own categories too, like fame, whether or not they were a double champ, etc.), but with my criteria, it's clearly Weili at the top, then Joanna, then Rose. It's certainly not close enough to consider head-to-head record.
 
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Gamer2k4 said:
Well, of the ones I listed, their longevity is about equal (12 years for Rose to 12 years for Weili to 10 for Joanna - though Rose has another 3 years of amateur experience and Joanna has another 6 years of kickboxing/Muay Thai experience). I give the strength of schedule edge to Joanna and Weili because, being champions, they had more fights against top contenders (plus, as someone else pointed out, they had more success than Rose against common opponents). For win/loss ratio, you're looking at 14-7 (Rose) to 26-3 (Weili) to 16-5 (Joanna). For finish rate, it's 50% to 73% to 31% - Rose beats Joanna there but falls well short of Weili. For title defenses, it's Rose 2, Weili 4, Joanna 5.

Of the categories I listed above, Rose is the best at only one of them - longevity - and even that's tied with Weili. She's last everywhere else except finish rate. Weili is top in longevity (tied), W/L ratio, and finish rate. She's second only in title defenses, and last nowhere. Joanna is behind Weili in most categories but still beats Rose in strength of schedule, W/L ratio, and title defenses (where she's first).

Again, different people weigh criteria differently (and might have their own categories too, like fame, whether or not they were a double champ, etc.), but with my criteria, it's clearly Weili at the top, then Joanna, then Rose. It's certainly not close enough to consider head-to-head record.
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Yeah but rose was fighting top competition for most of her "longevity.: Zhang was fighting nobodies
 
1. Amanda - the best an its not really close
.
.
.
2. Valentina
3. Cyborg
4. Rose - say Zhang or JJ if you want but the best ever SW fought each other twice an Rose was 4-0. Settled in cage imo.
5. Ronda - shes a bad person but she did pave the way

JJ, Holly, Zhang. HM
 
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Streeter said:
The SW was settled. IN CAGE ! Not via MMA math or resume comparisons the 3 fought each other twice. Rose is the SW goat but Rose gets alot of Hate for some reason . <Fedor23>
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That's why this debate is so interesting to me. Calling Thug Rose the GOAT sounds absolutely crazy, but when you break it down & really think about it, it's not as crazy as one would think. But the argurment for Weili or Joanna is how they reigned. Thug never reigned over a division. That's where the argument takes a turn.
 
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Gamer2k4 said:
Well, of the ones I listed, their longevity is about equal (12 years for Rose to 12 years for Weili to 10 for Joanna - though Rose has another 3 years of amateur experience and Joanna has another 6 years of kickboxing/Muay Thai experience). I give the strength of schedule edge to Joanna and Weili because, being champions, they had more fights against top contenders (plus, as someone else pointed out, they had more success than Rose against common opponents). For win/loss ratio, you're looking at 14-7 (Rose) to 26-3 (Weili) to 16-5 (Joanna). For finish rate, it's 50% to 73% to 31% - Rose beats Joanna there but falls well short of Weili. For title defenses, it's Rose 2, Weili 4, Joanna 5.

Of the categories I listed above, Rose is the best at only one of them - longevity - and even that's tied with Weili. She's last everywhere else except finish rate. Weili is top in longevity (tied), W/L ratio, and finish rate. She's second only in title defenses, and last nowhere. Joanna is behind Weili in most categories but still beats Rose in strength of schedule, W/L ratio, and title defenses (where she's first).

Again, different people weigh criteria differently (and might have their own categories too, like fame, whether or not they were a double champ, etc.), but with my criteria, it's clearly Weili at the top, then Joanna, then Rose. It's certainly not close enough to consider head-to-head record.
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I think Championship fights is a better metrix than defenses which ingnores arguably the hardest wins beating the Champion. So Zhang is 6-2, jj is 6-4, Rose is 4-3.
 
Streeter said:
The SW was settled. IN CAGE ! Not via MMA math or resume comparisons the 3 fought each other twice. Rose is the SW goat but Rose gets alot of Hate for some reason . <Fedor23>
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Then your SW goat is Carla she settled that with Rose in the Cage 2-0.
 
Its also worth mentioning that rose barely scraped by andrade and tecia the 2nd time after they both beat her in their 1st meetings

She left the rematch with andrade bloodied and battered and half the audience had tecia beating rose a 2nd time.

Weili and joanna both dominated or decisively beat tecia and andrade and did what rose couldnt do in 4 attempts with andrade and tecia
 
Lionheart7167 said:
Just curious how everyone would rank the top 10 female fighters of all time (UFC and otherwise)

Here's my list.

1. Nunes- Two-division champion, beat all the names in an unbelievable run including Rousey, Shevchenko, Cyborg, etc.
2. Shevchenko- Been on top of the FLW division for years, and still competing at the highest level. Close losses to Nunes and a draw with Grasso place her slightly lower. I put her higher than Cyborg because of the quality of her opponents
3. Cyborg- Incredible record. Still only two losses in her entire career (Nunes being one of them)
4. Zhang- Another incredible record, and only three losses (Rose beat her twice, but I don't think anyone would put her higher in the GOAT conversation)
5. Joanna- Incredible run at SW, and until the very end looked unstoppable.
6. Rousey- In spite of her dominance, she's a bit lower on the list because her opposition was never quite up to par.
7. Fuji- From 2004-2011 high level of domination. The only fighter on this list who fought outside the UFC
8. Rose- Rose was always inconsistent but when she was on, she beat amazing fighters
9. Esparza- I hate to put her on any list like this but she IS a two time UFC champ several years apart, beat Rose and Grasso
10. Tate- Was in the top 10 for many years

Honorables: Andrade, Marlos Coenen, Grasso, Holm

And no. In spite of Carano's importance, she was never an amazing fighter.
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hard to argue with your top 5. spot on
 
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