Putin makes Holocaust denial a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail.

[welcometohavoc]

What do you mean, "you people"?

Sounds like slave owner bullshit but okay.

He's right though. As with every discussion involving a fringe, conspiracy movements, its believers ask for evidence, and then when it's provided to them, they dismiss it as propaganda/forgeries/etc

Thankfully as with pretty much everyone involved in said movements, your belief is not required.

 

[welcometohavoc]

I have no qualms with the Jewish people. My gripe is with zionists who blindly support the state of Israel and its various nefarious dealings. But you and your buddies in your echo chamber can't seem to understand that.

Funny how most anti-zionists tend to be Holocaust deniers in some fashion

 

[tramendous]

It's clearly not like other forms of group hatred. That's almost impossibly obvious. What is your specific interest in being obtuse about that?

What makes it different than any other people who were targets of pogroms and genocides? Do they get a special word too or are we only reserving that for the one event that is beyond any type of historical scrutiny. Just because it has a scientific sounding name that doesn't make sense doesn't make it different.

 

[Fawlty]

What makes it different than any other people who were targets of pogroms and genocides? Do they get a special word too or are we only reserving that for the one event that is beyond any type of historical scrutiny. Just because it has a scientific sounding name that doesn't make sense doesn't make it different.

You're not even bothering to acknowledge the repetition of this particular hostility, which is dramatically out of scale with other instances. So, I conclude you have an agenda. I don't know your posting, but let me guess- I'll find that you "question the numbers" or whatever. Am I correct? Will I find that?

 

[Fawlty]

Ha! Not only was I right- you and I have been around this block before:

here was the exchange of me giving you the benefit of the doubt (never again) a year or two ago:
http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/120991035/

im skeptical of the 6 million figure as fact. even some of the stats posted earlier in the thread say 'up to'. i do believe there was a genocide by the nazis against jews and other peoples.

And because I never get tired of this, apparently, here's a recycled thought I have:

It's great how these guys never want to get pinned down on a specific claim. What usually happens is one of three things. Suggesting a Zionist conspiracy, or arguing about free speech, or throwing out a huge list of (mostly false) claims that have to be gone through one by one.

My favorite recent obliteration of denier objection is the excavation at Treblinka, finding the gas chamber in one of the possible spots it was predicted to have been, confirming rare witness testimony with physical evidence.

 

[Quipling]

Ha! Not only was I right- you and I have been around this block before:

here was the exchange of me giving you the benefit of the doubt (never again) a year or two ago:
http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/120991035/

And because I never get tired of this, apparently, here's a recycled thought I have:

Its telling who liked those posts and others like them.

 

[Fawlty]

Its telling who liked those posts and others like them.

They're just asking questions, man. Like, if the Treblinka excavation corroborating witness testimony right down to the color and pattern on the tiles was completely faked by Zionists seeking world domination. Just questions.

 

[abiG]

I am I having a difficult time with most posters on this thread. I'll be honest. I cannot tell what is more pathetic. Those who actually believe that the holocaust didn't happen or those taking time from their lives to go on the internet and explain that it did while berating these poor fools.

And what the hell is wrong with those who voted to have a law like this in America? Let's focus on a real issue.

 

[Fawlty]

I am I having a difficult time with most posters on this thread. I'll be honest. I cannot tell what is more pathetic. Those who actually believe that the holocaust didn't happen or those taking time from their lives to go on the internet and explain that it did while berating these poor fools.

It's the alternative to making their garbage and destructive speech illegal. This shit spreads like typhus. It has to be talked down, shouted down, and beaten down wherever and whenever it pops up.

 

[tramendous]

Ha! Not only was I right- you and I have been around this block before:

here was the exchange of me giving you the benefit of the doubt (never again) a year or two ago:
http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/120991035/



And because I never get tired of this, apparently, here's a recycled thought I have:

You dont need to go 2 years back. I was in this thread saying the only reason why you'd have these laws is if you had something to hide. Labelling people who question or are skeptical about 6 million (a number that strangely keeps coming up over and over even before the holocaust) as deniers is hilariously stupid. If i question the amount of people that died in the great leap forward am i denying that event? Or if i question how many native americans died during the colonization of america?

 

[sangreporsangre]

Not to be outdone by Putin, the Polish have passed a bill in their parliament that makes it illegal to blame Poland in any way for the Holocaust and bans the term "Polish death camps". Bibi apparently is not too pleased about this.

The bill, passed by the lower house of parliament on Friday, would make the use of phrases such as "Polish death camps" punishable by up to three years in prison.

To become law, the bill, which could yet be amended, must be approved by the Senate and Polish President Andrzej Duda.

"We will accept no limitation on truthful historical research," Netanyahu earlier told his cabinet.

"Our ambassador in Warsaw, at my instruction, spoke with the prime minister of Poland during last night's ceremony commemorating the Holocaust at Auschwitz, and emphasised these positions of ours," he said, referring to a service to mark the 73rd anniversary of the death camp's liberation.

Warsaw says the bill will not limit freedom to research or speak about the Holocaust.

"Jews, Poles, and all victims should be guardians of the memory of all who were murdered by German Nazis. Auschwitz-Birkenau is not a Polish name, and 'Arbeit Macht Frei' is not a Polish phrase," Morawiecki said on Twitter on Saturday.

The German phrase, which translates as "work sets you free", was set into the wrought iron gates at Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps.

The Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) said that Poland had been in the past many times presented as an ally of Hitler, which made it necessary to protect its reputation.

Poland lost about 3 million of its non-Jewish citizens, including many of its intellectuals and members of the elites during World War Two. The capital Warsaw was razed to the ground in 1944 after a failed uprising in which 200,000 civilians died.



BILL BANS "POLISH DEATH CAMPS" REFERENCE

Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust remembrance centre, said the phrase "Polish death camps" would be a historical misrepresentation but that the bill was "liable to blur the historical truths regarding the assistance the Germans received from the Polish population".

https://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKBN1FI09A

It seems pretty crazy. I'll tell you this though, Polish people have long been bitter about Jews throwing shade at them over the Holocaust in their country. My son's mother is actually originally from Poland and I remember her dad talking about it a lot. I guess Poland actually had to pay some money to Israel at some point? I can remember him drinking spiritus and ranting about that "why don't they try to get money from the Russians? Because they know they will get a frozen fucking fist!" But as far as this legislation goes, is it just trying to stoke nationalist feelings or something like that? I notice the PM made sure to point out "murdered by German Nazis".

I can understand why this wouldn't be a cool thing to say in Poland but making it illegal is fucked. I don't think I've ever heard/read anyone say "Polish death camps" anyway they're usually referred to as Nazi death camps. The government is getting more authoritarian there and in other places too. Cracking down on free speech should never be an option. You gotta love Israel though, they jumped into action the second they heard that someone doesn't want to be a part of the blame game anymore. I wonder if there will be any amendments to the bill.

 

[LMP]

It sucks to see anyone's speech restricted, no matter how dumb it might be. The growing trend to do so, across the globe, is a bit worrisome to me. However it's up to the people of said country to decide what they want out of their government.

 

[Curmudgeon]

In before mod note

 

[Der Eisbär]

What a weird law. Poland were the first victims of the nazis and they suffered tremendously from the war. Who the fuck is out there blaming them?

 

[tramendous]

Is there a reason why people choose to call them "polish death camps"? Is there a group who thinks the Poles were running them?

 

[Limbo Pete]

In before mod note

 

[Curmudgeon]

Limbo you feg, you get relegated to:

@Lead (cuz he got upped from the gay stuff for the blue feg group)
cheers fuckers

 

[sangreporsangre]

What a weird law. Poland were the first victims of the nazis and they suffered tremendously from the war. Who the fuck is out there blaming them?

Apparently there is sentiment in Israel and among some Holocaust survivors that some Poles wouldn't help them or would turn them in. Even the remembrance centre was saying something about that in that article. As far as suffering, yea man it was really brutal for them and then at the end they got fucked.

 

[sangreporsangre]

Is there a reason why people choose to call them "polish death camps"? Is there a group who thinks the Poles were running them?

I didn't really know this was a thing, I don't think I had ever even seen the phrase but here you go:



An Israeli politician. In that thread people are talking mad shit to each other. This is an old wound and this right-wing nationalist government has opened it up with their fucked up authoritarian law. Maybe the Israelis were fanning the flames earlier though? But I can't imagine them trying to shake down Poland these days. Reading through the Jewish people's comments it seems that they want to be able to hold the nation of Poland partially responsible for the Holocaust because of the actions of a small amount of Polish individuals during that hellish war. Polish people are sensitive about that obviously because of what a traumatic event WW2 was for them. I mean Auschwitz for example wasn't even considered Polish territory at the time. I think this law is retarded though. They have Holocaust denial laws on the books in Poland as well.

 

[Quipling]

Apparently there is sentiment in Israel and among some Holocaust survivors that some Poles wouldn't help them or would turn them in. Even the remembrance centre was saying something about that in that article. As far as suffering, yea man it was really brutal for them and then at the end they got fucked.

Although the poles did suffer severely under the Nazis, there were a fair share of collaborators. My guess is that's where the sentiment comes from.