dogmai said:Protein shakes = only Pros, no Cons.
peregrine said:1. body composition- many of you kids eclypse included aspire to be mma fighters or in games where weight classes are important. having more lean mass is important in most of these sports as it allows one to have the potential for greater power.
so with an athlete with the same workout what do you think would occur with a change in the macro ratio of the intake.? such as:
70% carbohydrate, 15% protein, 15% fat diet to a diet containing 40% carbohydrate, 30% protein, and 30% fat
same total intake, same expenditure.
he would recomp.
Effect of protein intake and physical activity on 24-h pattern and rate of macronutrient utilization. Am J Physiol. 1999 May;276(5 Pt 1):E964-76
this study shows how an increase in protein at the expense of carbs will lead to a negative fat balance. basically better nutrient partitioning.
2. maybe on a 2250kcal diet, 365gm of carbs per day using the 65% ratio is not a lot, but if a person were eatting 4500kcal a day that is 730gm of carbs. what do carbs do to the body? what happens with all that insulin? how about the athletes insulin sensitivity levels over time? does insulin insensitivty pose a certain risk? how about diabetes?
3. yes there maybe some natural 600pound squatters who advocate a 65%C 15%P 15%F ratio, but tell me what his bf ratio is. also tell me he used that diet to gt to 600lbs and his greatest gains were from 15%p a day. i doubt this guys bf is under 6-8%. if it is he is genetically gifted and lucky, most people cannot be that lean on such a diet while continuing to be powerful and large.
peregrine said:tell me your bf. are you happy with it? tell me your lifts are you happy with those. btw i call u a kid as you write that you are an aspiring mma fighter. i may be wrong. you could be entering midlife crisis.
i know what lifts are for trainees around 185lbs. so let's hear them. then let's hear the bf%.
i was actually doing a lot of work as not to cross reference and come up with a post for you earlier. i am sure you were the same. the reason i posted for your refute was this was going on the 3rd page and turning into an old post.
i will reread your post later and be back. now i am going out to have some fun.
peregrine said:i was actually doing a lot of work as not to cross reference and come up with a post for you earlier. i am sure you were the same. the reason i posted for your refute was this was going on the 3rd page and turning into an old post.
I'm incredibly happy with my body composition and resistance capacity. What I want to know is why you're busy asking me about that, which has absolutely no bearing on the discussion at hand, or anything in terms of the information I'm providing, instead of putting your time into a solid rebuttal. Why is that?peregrine said:tell me your bf. are you happy with it? tell me your lifts are you happy with those. btw i call u a kid as you write that you are an aspiring mma fighter. i may be wrong. you could be entering midlife crisis.
i know what lifts are for trainees around 185lbs. so let's hear them. then let's hear the bf%.
Thanks! Read up on some of my [url="http://www.sherdog.net/forums/search.php?searchid=516799]other posts[/url] for more useful information.DridenGX said:Interesting info Eclypse. Great thread.
Rjkd12 said:I previously posted that increased protein isn't bad.
30% protein for a person who is on a 3,000 calorie a day diet is 225 grams. That isn't too much IMO.
Rjkd12 said:Also this is why I said I don't like the "grams per lb" because I think it should be a percentage calculation. Someone bulking up and consuming 4,000-5,000 calories a day would be taking a different amount of protein than someone on a 1,500 day cutting phase.
Rjkd12 said:I don't think someone who is very athletic will be that caught up in insulin sensitivity. Also I think the general obese American who gets diabetes takes in more sugar, or a much higher percentage of sugar of the total caloric intake.
again "i don't think"Rjkd12 said:I don't think I've ever heard of an athlete getting diabetes even if they are taking is massive amounts of carbs.
i don't know what you are leading to but this statement is wrong. why would i want high glycemic carbs any other time except pwo or mid workout?Rjkd12 said:Lastly if you are taking in that many carbs they should be very high in the glycemic index. These do not fluctuate insulin as much and will not cause the negative effects.
Rjkd12 said:Lastly I said that I do not necessarily agree with 15%. I believe that is a number that biochemists came up with. That was also the number for NON athletes. I think that an athlete does need more protein, but not 50% of his diet. I think he needs overall more calories also. All you need protein for is a positive nitrogen balance, and to get in your non-essential amino acids. The rest can be manufactured in the body. For 200 lbs, 3 grams a lb is 600 grams, which is 2,400 calories. That is the full diet of a lot of people. To make that 30% you would need to be on a 7,2000 calories. Please. 50 percent is still 4,800 calories.
Rjkd12 said:HAHA
I love it when someone says "Ok ok ok, enough with this "science mumbo jumbo" I am stronger so therefore i win." Next time when we discuss who is the stronger lifter I"m going to hand you a physiology exam and see how you do. When you out squat me but I score higher I'm going to mention how because I am smarter I am also stronger than you.
.
Eclypse said:I've argued all my life. Don't mess with me unless you know exactly what you're talking about.
this statement pretty much sums up what you are.
yes you are a very argumentive person. i can see that in your condescending remarks to me. you seem to thrive on wanting to win an argument. one should consider not editing their posts when one debates as your credibility is lost when you change your posts.
interesting you've called me "perry" in two posts. with all your academia background i am suprised you didn't read my name correctly. it's Peregrine.
Eclypse said:I'm incredibly happy with my body composition and resistance capacity. What I want to know is why you're busy asking me about that, which has absolutely no bearing on the discussion at hand, or anything in terms of the information I'm providing, instead of putting your time into a solid rebuttal. Why is that?
Madmick said:Typical rhetorical distraction tactic.
Tell me, Peregrine, does your ass hurt?
to both of you,
hmm. i am suprised you did not read my post correctly. i stated i had been busy at work as i am sure you have and "will reread your post and be back later"
you're too eager to refute. calm down. it's tainting your argument. your belittling remarks remove your professionalism since you are an adult.
your bf has relevance as this is first hand experience. as well you posted your clients, again i know several well known trainers who advocate medium to high protein diets. albeit carbs may be cycled. these guys train beginning, intermediate, advanced and world class athletes. nautral and enahnced.
iron addict trains 70plus, dc trains many as well. there are others but these are off the top of my head.
AGAIN I WILL BE BACK LATER. to reread your posts and studies, i will also post my own.
"i don't think." jeesh some of you are bashing me for being vague how about that staement? lol.
insulin sensitivity is important as your statement about 30gm from soda 'pop' indicates. athletes should be cognizant of insulin, and carb intake. as the wrong kind of carbs can lead to fat storage if timed wrong.
again "i don't think"
yes you wrote your disclaimer but this with your mockery of why i said. reread my posts, recomp. leaner gains. i also questioned his bf as i know many well known trainers who advocate what some of you call "medium to high" protein diets.
i don't know what you are leading to but this statement is wrong. why would i want high glycemic carbs any other time except pwo or mid workout?
you should read up on insulin. it will give you better credibility if you have an idea. then you will not have to write "i don't think"
what do you think my entire posts on this thread was about? we all agree athletes require higher protein levels. the amount is the dispute.you admitted 15% may not be ideal for an athlete. again i did not state 50% protein diets. when i wrote 3gm if you reread i said "enhanced" athletes.
did you miusunderstand my posts thinking that i advocate 3gm of protein for the average athlete?
sure. hand me one.
why are you attempting to instigate a situation? seems pretty childish.
anyways i bow down to your ultimate supremacy you are not only stronger but smarter.