Prime Sakuraba vs Prime Maia

[Shinobi]

Why do any of you guys even bother asking who would win between a beloved legend and someone much less iconic? The answer will almost always be the beloved legend.

Saku is one of my favourite fighters ever, if not my favourite. I'd still say Maia 8 out of 10 times. Maia's BJJ is just on a completely different level.

 

[AtaTheCrow]

Maia ist strong and it was a time a really thought he could get the title at WW... however, Saku ist stronger.
I go with the living Legend on this one.

 

[Shinobi]

Did not say that at all, I was merely pointing out you can't trust his wins since we know that the Yakuza ran PRIDE and fixed fights. They're the Yakuza.

Fixed fights exist everywhere in the world. By your logic we shouldn't trust any fight. Why is the US any different than Japan? If anything the US has a much longer history of fakery than Japan, on every possible level.

 

[krelianx]

A skill set is always related to a Fight Configuration, and by extension, a Scoring Criteria..

This "analysis" ya´ve jus´dropped is a lazy one. In short, a cliché.

Watchin´ fights is one thing.
Understandin´ the evoliution of a fighter´s skill set within a Fight Configuration is a lil bit more complex, Im afraid.

In time, your assessment of SAKU`s striking:
"Had very good leg kicks, a fair bit of power in his hands"
shows that ya didnt [seriously] watch his fights..

You are using terminology evasively. I understand skills are related to fight configurations (i.e. a contextualization of a fighters' skills in a holistic context) which is correlated to a given Scoring Criteria. This is all good.

I am not disputing Sakuraba's quality in relation to the Fight Configuration and Scoring Criteria of his time. I am saying his skill-set wouldn't translate to an effective profile for an effective Fight Configuration and, by extension, Scoring Criteria, today. Some vintage fighters would, but Saku is not one of them.

About the last part, I would just ask: how do you disagree? What is genuinely underhanded is to raise dismissals without making their grounds explicit.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Saku by cardio. Skills are a wash.

 

[JustOnce]

Had very good leg kicks, a fair bit of power in his hands, a very good single leg, and a fantastic kimura.

I think people don't realize how woefully rudimentary he would look in today's game, even if he fought at WW.

I think you don't realize how rudiementary your brain is at its developmental process.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

these noobs just see the old bandaged mummy Saku and assume he was always like that. He had insane speed and agility in his prime. The current Saku was dominated and tko'ed against Aoki of all people. The PRIDE version would have made him cry.

It's like those idiots who think Bader would have beaten prime Fedor. These people have no concept of time or historical context.

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

Idk if I agree with Saku being overrated, but I do take Maia.

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

I'm gonna guess it's less that he thinks Saku is bad... and more of his fans used to be top 5 most annoying and regarded him as a God when even in his "prime" he lost a lot and viciously.

I think he's overrated to anyone who thinks he's GOAT or the best, but if you tell me he's really good then I agree

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

these noobs just see the old bandaged mummy Saku and assume he was always like that. He had insane speed and agility in his prime. The current Saku was dominated and tko'ed against Aoki of all people. The PRIDE version would have made him cry.

It's like those idiots who think Bader would have beaten prime Fedor. These people have no concept of time or historical context.

"it's like those idiots"

Fedor got rocked by Fujita, chill with the insulting people because they have a different opinion.

If you told Fedor fans years ago that he would lose to Hendo, Mitrione and Bader... I Guarantee that his fans would say he would NEVER lose to them, no matter how shot.... yet here we are...


I like Fedor but he went strikeforce instead of UFC and lost to guys that were or went to the UFC, the HWs he would've likely been matched up with anyways....

A common theme with Sherdog is that the rabid and obnoxious fanboys make people dislike fighters that they normally wouldn't dislike.
I remember very seldomly admitting I'm a Shogun fan because most of them are juuuust like Fedor/Jones/Anderson fans... always an excuse...

 

[tenniswhiz]

I love maia and saku but to say maia would smoke saku is insane. Maia couldnt smoke masvidal or laflare but would smoke prime saku. Okay

That’s the beauty of martial arts discussion.

People speak in superlatives and exaggerations.

The true story might be that the Daoist monk armed with a stick was able to escape from 2 armed attackers.
The legend will be that the unarmed monk used southern praying mantis technique to kill 20 armed assailants.

 

[ralek4grammy]

I'd so watch this!!

 

[Karelinator]

Saku mostly had trouble with strikers during his prime...

I guess it depends if Maia could complete a takedown. In standup, or with Maia on his back, Saku would probably kick/punch his way to an UD.

 

[gono btw]

Saku mostly had trouble with strikers during his prime...

I guess it depends if Maia could complete a takedown. In standup, or with Maia on his back, Saku would probably kick/punch his way to an UD.

Depends...

SAKU G. dominated strikers like Igor, Ebenezer Braga,Vitor Gracie,Tiger,Hyan Gracie,...

Draw with Mezger, and arguably Crocop b4 the cut.

The one striker that gave him probz : Wand.

 

[gono btw]

You are using terminology evasively. I understand skills are related to fight configurations (i.e. a contextualization of a fighters' skills in a holistic context) which is correlated to a given Scoring Criteria. This is all good.

I am not disputing Sakuraba's quality in relation to the Fight Configuration and Scoring Criteria of his time. I am saying his skill-set wouldn't translate to an effective profile for an effective Fight Configuration and, by extension, Scoring Criteria, today. Some vintage fighters would, but Saku is not one of them.

About the last part, I would just ask: how do you disagree? What is genuinely underhanded is to raise dismissals without making their grounds explicit.

Translatin´..."today"..

Ya´re aware that "today", all Fight Configuration and Scoring System are not the same.
For instance, ONE FC´s is similar to the Pride one, complex Scoring System (influenced by...Hume).

Ya can say SAKU´s skill set wouldnt translate well to Modern UFC, fair enough, since the UFC´s Fight Configration is actually a negation of SAKU´s 'ideology' when it comes to MMA skills: in modern UFC, nobody would sacrifice a position for a submission (in short, a career a la No Rush), and submission attempts are not rewarded.

SAKU G. would realistically get bored and wouldnt sign to compete in Modern UFC.
It is what it is.

About the last part, your assessment of SAKU´s striking is too simplistic.
Ya didnt pay sufficient attention when ya watched the fights, Im afraid, otherwise, explain me how SAKU G. did somehow get the:
> Draw vs Mezger

> Win vs Vitor Gracie.

...for instance...

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Sakuraba went to the ground with the Gracies and beat them up. Maia is not better than Prime Undefeated Royce Gracie

Uhh....what?

Maia is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Royce at literally every single aspect of MMA.

Regarding ground fighting, Maia at one point was literally the best nogi grappler at his weight class in the entire world.

 

[JustOnce]

Uhh....what?

Maia is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Royce at literally every single aspect of MMA.

Regarding ground fighting, Maia at one point was literally the best nogi grappler at his weight class in the entire world.

Maia isn't way better than Renzo or Royler on the ground. Might be better, but wouldn't be that much of a gap.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Maia isn't way better than Renzo or Royler on the ground. Might be better, but wouldn't be that much of a gap.

Yes, he really is.

Maia is a significantly better grappler than Royce/Royler/Renzo, especially in an MMA context. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

At his peak, he was literally the best nogi grappler in the world at his weight (or top 3 at a bare minimum).

Royler, as great as he was on a technical front, would be giving up at least 30 pounds and probably closer to 40 pounds in a H2H matchup. Royce (all due respect to him), was usually seen as one of the more modestly talented of the brothers, let alone not world-class. Renzo was definitely a great competition grappler, but didn't translate it to MMA nearly as well as Maia has.

 

[krelianx]

Translatin´..."today"..

Ya´re aware that "today", all Fight Configuration and Scoring System are not the same.
For instance, ONE FC´s is similar to the Pride one, complex Scoring System (influenced by...Hume).

Ya can say SAKU´s skill set wouldnt translate well to Modern UFC, fair enough, since the UFC´s Fight Configration is actually a negation of SAKU´s 'ideology' when it comes to MMA skills: in modern UFC, nobody would sacrifice a position for a submission (in short, a career a la No Rush), and submission attempts are not rewarded.

SAKU G. would realistically get bored and wouldnt sign to compete in Modern UFC.
It is what it is.

About the last part, your assessment of SAKU´s striking is too simplistic.
Ya didnt pay sufficient attention when ya watched the fights, Im afraid, otherwise, explain me how SAKU G. did somehow get the:
> Draw vs Mezger

> Win vs Vitor Gracie.

...for instance...

Uhm, that 'draw' with Mezger is one of the most blatant cases of judging corruption in the history of the sport. There is a reason they threw a fit after. Sakuraba lost that fight.

The Vitor fight is the strangest fight I have ever seen. Vitor spent the majority of the fight on his back with Saku throwing leg kicks from his feet. I already granted he has good leg kicks. I don't know if Sakuraba injured his leg(s) or something. But that fight does nothing to show versatility in striking.

These examples are not helping your case.

 

[krelianx]

Depends...

SAKU G. dominated strikers like Igor, Ebenezer Braga,Vitor Gracie,Tiger,Hyan Gracie,...

Draw with Mezger, and arguably Crocop b4 the cut.

The one striker that gave him probz : Wand.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but this is the end of this conversation.

To claim he dominated Igor or Mirko before the cut, and to say that Ryan and Braga are strikers is sufficient to show you are not capable of thinking straight.

I'm out.