Prime Fedor was what Cain wished to be

[GordonMMARamsey]

#Lockupcain

 

[Striker Fox]

#Lockupcain

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Yes.

Would Jake Paul beat Anderson in his prime?

In boxing? Who knows. Anderson vs Paul is an old man vs a young man in a sport the old man never did as a pro. Boxing is irrelevant

 

[Marko Polo]

Cain burned brighter but Fedor did it for longer

 

[My Spot]

I doubt Cain ever wished to get finished by 40 year old who only weighed 207 lbs.

 

[CashMoney1991]

The best Pride fighters aged horribly overnight in their early 30s

like Fedor, Shogun, Big & Little Nog, Wandy, and Cro Cop.

Meanwhile, the lesser guys in that era, guys like Hunt, Werdum, and Overeem kept going and somehow got better by the time the best guys in Pride started declining.

I wonder if the best guys just trained too hard in their early 20s, while the lesser guys didn't take training seriously till 30 thus prolonging their careers from reduced amounts of damage.

That's gotta be one of the main factors, right?

+ most of the best pride guys just didn't adapt their game to their best strengths, they relied on what made them successful in pride but their bodies just weren't the same anymore by the time they reached the UFC.

You look at Glover, slower, more flat-footed than before, yet he only relies on what he needs to, using his boxing to set up the takedown.

Why didn't Fedor adapt his game at all? His sambo is the best at HW, why would he rely solely on stand-up when his chin is gone, he's so much slower, and his defense is non existent.

It reminds me of JDS and refusing to stop backing up into the cage

rumor has it that Chute Box would train way too hard and had 100% all out spars

 

[CashMoney1991]

Cain was very good, we don't know how long he would of been champ had it not been for injuries, I have Stipe higher than Cain but Fedor is the HW goat, however he isn't top 5 overall goat, he's at 6 or 7 imo overall, Fedor was the fastest HW I have ever seen and Cain has some of the best cardio at HW I have ever seen but he was chinny and his striking defense wasnt that great, HW was never that strong of a division since the best athletes that weight that much go to the NFL or NBA

 

[Supereem]

Nog was a poor man's Werdum (I mean, later improved Werdum) carried on by chin and Crocop was poor man's JDS.

Prime Nog beat Werdum...

 

[DarkRaven]

Its amazing really that utter drivel like this still gets posted, as mentioned go watch the Crocop fight, a fight against someone who is IMHO easily in the top 5 counter fighters in MMA history at his peak and see how much Mirko is able to land on him. Fedor during his prime had the lowest strikes taken per min of any fighter(with a significant record anyway) in MMA history dispite being a very aggressive striker.

Honestly what was Nog doing there He was just asking to get reversed.

Fedor during his prime had the lowest strikes taken per min of any fighter

Fedor spend 80% of his fight in ground positions. He is averageing 3min for finish per fight with going the distance fights.

I think the issue is that a lot of MMA fans have basically been sold the idea that a "technical striker" is a stiff upright fighter who pumps a jab because thats what we tend to see most often, Fedor could use a jab if he needed to(the 3rd Nog fight he lands plenty of them) but that he didnt generally do so doesnt mean he was a "brawler". His timing, his movement, etc was I think some of the best we've ever seen in MMA during his prime.

So how do we know he had elite jab timing??? Nog fight? Islam one of the best grapplers in UFC got tripped and TD by Alex in 2nd round. Fedor style. How did that happen? When Alex went in with 1-2 shift stance overhand, Islam went into panic (even Josh admited) and leaned back while walking back (bad defensive footwork), Alex places leg on the outside and Islam tripps himself over leg (Fedor style). Same Islam who used Fedor style tripps himself got Fedored

What is my point. To defeat Fedors style TD you need few things. You need to learn to roll with the punches, you cant lean back and you need wrestlers balance and clinch game. None of his opponents had all 3 developed to any degree. Semmy and CroCop had no "wrestling stance" and Herring and Nog were panicking and leaning away with bad foot movement.

You can look at Alex vs Islam and how Islam was countering Alex all night. You cant go with switch stance overheand against Stipe, DC or Cain. They all can cover, roll and counter, or they can go for TD. Not many of today top boxer-wrestler hybrids will unbalance themself so you can tripp them.

How do i know? Silva didnt, he did all those things i was talking about. Roll and counter dont unbalance yourself. It was Fedors A++ gameplan that failed him. Whole Fedor game plan was go in 1-2 change stance overhand into grab and trip.

Its a bit ironic saying Fedor has a "bad guard" considering most modern fighters have pretty much a non existent offensive guard. Really Fedor was actually a preview of the latter style of fighter who mostly looked to escape from his back rather than attack, the difference being he didnt just go that via giving up his back or wall walking like modern fighters often tend to do, he could also pull of great sweeps.

offensive guard? its risky. Generaly BJJ roling is risky and many ppl should tone it down in MMA. Many fighters land into bad positions where opponest keeps them down, does a little damage and scores round.

In all honesty Fedor didnt have wall so it was huge problem to escape from bottom in PRIDE. It nonsense to say he should use that or that when he did excelent in pride, but you cant let ppl in full mount today. It always ends badly because ppl wont play that game with you. You have Woodly vs Usman where Marty wraped legs aroud Woodlys and lock himself in full mount for full round. If Hunt was Usman, Fedor would spend whole 10min on back and there is nothing he could do. Nog was alway looking for some sub and that had its price. Nog was too much BJJ for his own good. There is saying, with less you can do more.

 

[ThunderStruck]

FEDOR IS THE GOAT. Cleared out PRIDE FC and UFC in affliction. Cain only beat JDS 5 times. FEDOR > CAIN ALL DAY EVERYDAY

Cleared UFC in affliction????????

 

[JarlSkuld]

Why is there still a Fedor thread in the UFC forum? Fedor never fought in the UFC. He just got destroyed by Ryan Bader...AGAIN. He's done. He's been done for a long time. Let the past be the past. Quit the cult and enjoy a whole new era of being open-minded.

Jarl

 

[SpamuraiSensei]

Fedor is the best heavyweight of all time. Nearly 10 years or so undefeated and beat everyone available to him at the peak of his career. Other guys came into their own later on, while Fedor fell off. One of the few fighters to carry an aura back then. When Fedor was fighting you watched.

Cain was a chinny young wrestler with good cardio, but he got his head knocked off 10 fights into his career. He then proceeded to fight the same two guys for two years, got a striking clinic put on him by Werdum of all people, gets injured yet again only to come back and get knocked into another plane of existence by Ngannou.

Its 40-7 vs 14-3. I don't know what else to say other than maybe Cain should have taken better care of his body and not trained like an idiot, but maybe i'm expecting too much from someone that fires a gun into a public roadway while chasing someone in a pickup truck. He's lucky a stray bullet didn't hit some innocent bystander.

Define Cain's legacy for what it is, not what it COULD have been. What was actually done > what MIGHT have happened.

 

[m249viking]

I hate to say it but prime Cain was > prime Fedor. Not a better career, but a better fighter.

Nah

 

[Bwagster]

Nah

True story bro!

 

[TheNinja]

Fedor was only 35 when 40 yo MW Dan Henderson beat the shit out of him. Cain would have beaten him much worse than Henderson.

YA and Fedor had been fighting for like 20 years pro and ammy at that point. It's not like a DC or Randy where they started fighting late in life. YEs, I know they wrestled all their life but you don't take the head damage in wrestling.

I'm not saying Hendo didn't get a good win but that Fedor was very different than prime. Even mentally he wasn't the same, didn't have the same intensity IMO.

 

[TheNinja]

Fedor was RIDICULOUSLY fast and quick for a HW. Speed is one of the earliy things to go. Randy fought as an old man, as did HEndo. BUt they relied on grinding style. Not speed as much.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

Why is there still a Fedor thread in the UFC forum? Fedor never fought in the UFC. He just got destroyed by Ryan Bader...AGAIN. He's done. He's been done for a long time. Let the past be the past. Quit the cult and enjoy a whole new era of being open-minded.

Jarl

because he transcends the UFC as the goat

 

[TheNinja]

Hunt wasnt green by that poiint he'd been in MMA for over 3 years but he was not close with those sub atempts, you need distance to complete that sub and the instant he tried to create that Fedor escaped it. Look at Hunt's fight with Werdum and you can see that Hunt staying in top position very close is hard to shift.

I just showed you his reverse on Big Nog, I'm guessing he was "unskilled" though compared to say the level of grappling talent we see from guys like Derrick Lewis in the modern era? if you seriously believe that when Dana White has emptied your cranium as well as your pockets.

He did actually have significant threat from his back in terms of both reversals and armbars, he didnt generally look to play an extended guard game from his back which again almost nobody does today either so its pretty ironic you thinking he's been "out evolved".

By the time he started losing his grappling had definitely declined, indeed I think that was really the main reason for his worse run and you saw he lost in Sambo as well awhile before that for the first time in years. His striking was dropping off a little by the time he lost but all of the defeats really are about grappling and no its not that he was suddenly fighting better opponents, Werdum is great of course but the reality is he couldnt sub Nog or Sergei in Pride when he was already a BJJ and ADCC champ.

Ya, Hunt is like a 5'10" 300 pound weight on you. I don't know what he weighed for that fight but I think HW was openweight in Pride right? No upper limit

 

[MMAK]

Prime Nog beat Werdum...

Improved Werdum submitted him easily. Anyway, all UFC champions starting from Brock Lesnar would likely beat prime Fedor. Fedor tdd wasn't very good. Mark Hunt took him down multiple times and he wasn't able to escape when tired hurt Heath Herring got on top of him. Prime Lesnar would take prime Fedor down in the first round and send him to oblivion with hammer fists. Cain would likely do the same thing but he could also beat him standing.

 

[My Spot]

33 year old Cain would have gotten finished by that version of Hendo too, you dishonest piece of garbage.

Welcome back.