International President Trump signs HISTORIC Peace Deal between Israel, Bahrain and the UAE 9/15/20

Good job on him. Maybe something positive and significant that will last far beyond his presidency.
 
MicroBrew said:
Mandela got the Nobel peace prize , along with De Klerk. Are we arguing whether this UAE/Bahrain normalization with Israel is a peace treaty or are we arguing on what merits a Nobel peace prize ?

UAE and Bahrain were never at war with Israel, so how can this agreement be called a peace treaty? And why is Trump getting credit for a non peace treaty? Just because he sits in the Oval Office does not mean he did something special. Mandela actually was an integral part of the end of Apartheid.
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trea·ty
/ˈtrēdē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. a formally concluded and ratified agreement between countries.
    "the two Presidents signed a ten-year treaty of solidarity"

I don't see any mention of war, Lieutenant Dan.
 
Holic said:
trea·ty
/ˈtrēdē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. a formally concluded and ratified agreement between countries.
    "the two Presidents signed a ten-year treaty of solidarity"

I don't see any mention of war, Lieutenant Dan.
Click to expand...
Why did you divorce the "Peace" from the "Treaty" and only provide the definition for "treaty" ?

Why imply or call it a peace treaty ? Why is T.S. claiming this is a historic peace deal ? Egypt and Jordan signing the peace treaty with Israel was a historic peace deal, this isn't.

Peace treaty
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peace treaty

an agreement to stop fighting a war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_treaty
A peace treaty is an agreement between two or more hostile parties, usually countries or governments, which formally ends a state of war between the parties
 
MicroBrew said:
Why did you divorce the "Peace" from the "Treaty" and only provide the definition for "treaty" ?

Why imply or call it a peace treaty ? Why is T.S. claiming this is a historic peace deal ? Egypt and Jordan signing the peace treaty with Israel was a historic peace deal, this isn't.

Peace treaty
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peace treaty

an agreement to stop fighting a war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_treaty
A peace treaty is an agreement between two or more hostile parties, usually countries or governments, which formally ends a state of war between the parties
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Cool. Here's another peace treaty that didn't end a state of war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Treaty_on_Korean_Peninsula

Cognitive dissonance in 3...2...
 
MicroBrew said:
Woulda happened whoever was President. Trump didn't bring this about, even though he is taking credit for it.



UAE and Saudi have been getting chummy with Israel well before Trump took office.

UAE leadership wanted good relations for a number of reasons:

- UAE knows if it is on good terms with Israel, it will get tremendous support from the US government. This allows UAE to do all kinds of shit and get away with it, with little pushback and criticism from the US government and establishment. UAE can keep abusing Asian workers and carry out war crimes in Yemen . Israel and its lobby are kingmakers, the UAE and Bin Salam of Saudi know this.

- UAE and Saudi fear Shia non Arab Iran and its influence. So that is another good reason to get close to Israel.

- Bahrain does what UAE and Saudi tells it to do, because Bahrain is run by a Sunni minority elite while the masses are Shia. Bahrain does not have an independent foreign policy, independent of UAE and Saudi. Qatar has an independent foreign policy, and for that the UAE and Saudi tried to cut it off.

- And before Turkey ended up pissing off the Saudis and Emiratis, the later 2 wanted Assad gone, so that was another reason to get close to Israel.
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Everyone gets US top tier weapons platform, no big deal.
 
Smart move by UAE and Bahrain, Tow the line or get Gaddafi'ed.
 
Holic said:
Cool. Here's another peace treaty that didn't end a state of war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Treaty_on_Korean_Peninsula

Cognitive dissonance in 3...2...
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That involves the primary parties who were engaged in open hostilities, it is a "proposed" treaty and since NK has not de-nuclearized, what point are you making here ?

You do know that Kim actually advanced his missile and nuclear weapons tech despite all the bullshit Trump tried to peddle about peace in NK.


Earlier this month, at a NATO summit in London, Donald Trump declared that “we have peace” with North Korea and that he had a better “personal relationship” with Kim Jong Un than the dictator had with possibly anyone else “in the world.”


What "peace" is he talking about? Trump loves to boast and take credit where none is deserved.

Although Trump says his friendship with Kim has produced a more peaceful North Korea, the reality, especially of late, has been quite different. Since May, North Korea has tested more missiles than it has in any other year in its history, except possibly 2016, according to the analyst Ankit Panda. It never stopped producing fissile material for nuclear bombs. Think tanks are pumping out reports on establishing “maximum pressure 2.0” against Pyongyang. The name-calling is back: Kim is once more “Rocket Man,” Trump a senile “dotard.” Satellites are spotting renewed activity at North Korean nuclear sites, while Kim has resumed testing at a rocket-launch site he had promised to dismantle in 2018. U.S. officials are yet again warning of military options. North Korean officials are proclaiming the days of denuclearization negotiations over. Kim is galloping around on white horses, and let’s just say it’s not because white symbolizes peace.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...orth-korea-diplomacy-denuclearization/603748/
 
Lead said:
Good job on him. Maybe something positive and significant that will last far beyond his presidency.
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I'm glad this is happening but he really had nothing to do with it

it just kinda of happened around him

it would have happened whether he was president or not
 
Hawkeye Pierce said:
I'm glad this is happening but he really had nothing to do with it

it just kinda of happened around him

it would have happened whether he was president or not
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That can be used often though and when we want to believe it. I don’t mind extending credit than being cynical. We don’t know it would’ve happened for sure in a different timeline and I see too often the game of downplay / upplay. I rather just say good job or bad job.
 
Holic said:
Cool. Here's another peace treaty that didn't end a state of war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Treaty_on_Korean_Peninsula

Cognitive dissonance in 3...2...
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MicroBrew said:
That involves the primary parties who were engaged in open hostilities, it is a "proposed" treaty and since NK has not de-nuclearized, what point are you making here ?

You do know that Kim actually advanced his missile and nuclear weapons tech despite all the bullshit Trump tried to peddle about peace in NK.


Earlier this month, at a NATO summit in London, Donald Trump declared that “we have peace” with North Korea and that he had a better “personal relationship” with Kim Jong Un than the dictator had with possibly anyone else “in the world.”


What "peace" is he talking about? Trump loves to boast and take credit where none is deserved.

Although Trump says his friendship with Kim has produced a more peaceful North Korea, the reality, especially of late, has been quite different. Since May, North Korea has tested more missiles than it has in any other year in its history, except possibly 2016, according to the analyst Ankit Panda. It never stopped producing fissile material for nuclear bombs. Think tanks are pumping out reports on establishing “maximum pressure 2.0” against Pyongyang. The name-calling is back: Kim is once more “Rocket Man,” Trump a senile “dotard.” Satellites are spotting renewed activity at North Korean nuclear sites, while Kim has resumed testing at a rocket-launch site he had promised to dismantle in 2018. U.S. officials are yet again warning of military options. North Korean officials are proclaiming the days of denuclearization negotiations over. Kim is galloping around on white horses, and let’s just say it’s not because white symbolizes peace.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...orth-korea-diplomacy-denuclearization/603748/
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tenor.gif
 
BFoe said:
Duck and run? Preposterous accusation sir. :)
I never have any issue discussing any political topic with conservatives here.

@MicroBrew is doing solid work in this thread.
This is a PR stunt. While it’s technically “historic,” and that’s worth something, I guess—it is lacking in substance, as is Trump’s MO. As @MicroBrew pointed out, this simply makes official what has already been long occurring. But it has some superficial benefits: Trump gets to tout his “peace deal” (it isn’t, and it doesn’t even lay the foundation for the first step towards one); Netanyahu gets to step back from annexation, as his zeal for it has brought about quite a bit of criticism; and the UAE gets to continue their PR push as a tourist destination, and stalwart of more moderate Islam.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/14/trump-mideast-israel-uae-deal-395567
Who gets screwed, is of course, the Palestinians. They will be on the receiving end of Trump’s “Art of the Deal,” which largely just consists of trying to bully and strong-arm his way into getting what he wants. This is not going to work in the Middle East long term, and to claim it lays the foundation of a viable two-state solution (as Trump has claimed) is downright laughable.
Trump has never given much of a shit about the Palestinians, as evidenced by his moving our embassy to Jerusalem, resulting in many deaths. He also didn’t seem to care much for them in this deal, as there is no right of return for Palestinian refugees, Jerusalem is given wholly to Israel, and Palestinian education curriculums need to be reviewed by Israel and the U.S.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...lestinians-respond-unity-200914175752492.html
Trump’s lack of understanding of the complexity of relations in the region will set the stage for a powder keg for future leaders.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/15/the-uae-israel-agreement-isnt-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/
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Thanks for the links, some background I found interesting when current events were in the works: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/06/18/donald-trumps-new-world-order
UAE has wanted to move closer to Israel and get those sweet drones, it was the US stopping them previously. This wasn't so much a peace deal as it was a press conference for the unveiling of the previously backchannel 'fuck Iran, fuck Palestine' arms deal that both countries seemed to be content keeping under raps.

I could see why you think this is a good move if you really think the Mideast is better off and more stable with us taking sides and getting more weapons to more Sunni countries and shitting on Iran and Palestine. Personally I'm not that worried about the defence contractors being able to sell another few billion in weapons to Saudi Arabia and friends. I'll prefer a Biden foreign policy with a softer approach to Iran, less bullshit approach to Palestine and a bit more distance from the region overall.
 
ocean size said:
Thanks for the links, some background I found interesting when current events were in the works: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/06/18/donald-trumps-new-world-order
UAE has wanted to move closer to Israel and get those sweet drones, it was the US stopping them previously. This wasn't so much a peace deal as it was a press conference for the unveiling of the previously backchannel 'fuck Iran, fuck Palestine' arms deal that both countries seemed to be content keeping under raps.

I could see why you think this is a good move if you really think the Mideast is better off and more stable with us taking sides and getting more weapons to more Sunni countries and shitting on Iran and Palestine. Personally I'm not that worried about the defence contractors being able to sell another few billion in weapons to Saudi Arabia and friends. I'll prefer a Biden foreign policy with a softer approach to Iran, less bullshit approach to Palestine and a bit more distance from the region overall.
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And Trump has the balls to call out Generals, not by name, that they want constant wars to feed the MIC. The MIC is doing great.
 
BFoe said:
@MicroBrew is doing solid work in this thread.
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He repeated the same talking point of "THERE'S NO WAR SO IT CAN'T BE A PEACE TREATY" like 60 fucking times even after it was proven that peace treaties are not only signed to end wars each fucking time.

I swear when babies cry and scream in public liberals must be thinking "shit I gotta use those points in my next debate"
 
Ophydian said:
And Trump has the balls to call out Generals, not by name, that they want constant wars to feed the MIC. The MIC is doing great.
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But Trump touted the defense deal with Saudi and how much money it would bring in.
 
Holic said:
He repeated the same talking point of "THERE'S NO WAR SO IT CAN'T BE A PEACE TREATY" like 60 fucking times even after it was proven that peace treaties are not only signed to end wars each fucking time.

I swear when babies cry and scream in public liberals must be thinking "shit I gotta use those points in my next debate"
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Just because you claim it was "proven" does not make it so. This isn't a peace treaty, and this needs repeating because you keep pushing a lie.
 
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