Opinion Pfizer Covid Vaccine Efficiency - Not as high as claimed

[phoenixikki]

The "tiny percent of the population" is already 400k deaths deep here, and according to most experts, the vaccines can keep you from spreading to them

0,12% of the population is irrefutably a tiny percent

 

[Hellowhosthat]

0,12% of the population is irrefutably a tiny percent

Have you got my side effects stats yet buddy?

 

[Wolfbrigade]

Your "absolute risk reduction" is an entirely asinine way of looking at it, since that can change immensely depending on any number of factors. Hey guess what? If you live in a cabin in the woods by yourself your absolute risk of getting Covid is about 0%

People who were studied in the tiral aren't living in the woods, bro... Risk of cathcing covid was below 1% in placebo group.

 

[JDragon]

I still can't

@Wolfbrigade sure thought he was onto something

 

[Hellowhosthat]

People who were studied in the tiral aren't living in the woods, bro... Risk of cathcing covid was below 1% in placebo group.

What does that have to do with the way you initially tried to present this information?

 

[BIKES!]

The only way to really tell is to have a trumpvirus positive person cough on both control and placebo groups, but there were obvious ethical concerns.

The control group for all we know couldve taken better social distancing measures.

Hey Queenie, Don't storm the capital again next week. They will use lethal force this time. Be careful

 

[Andy Capp]

Stopped reading OP at "using data from an opinion piece".

 

[Queen B]

Have you got my side effects stats yet buddy?

The nurse who fainted actually died.




The hospital posted pictures of her the following week, but it is said that the woman in the picture was an actress posing as the nurse

 

[phoenixikki]

Have you got my side effects stats yet buddy?

Google it.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Google it.

I figured if you were trying to have an argument you might have some evidence to back it up.

Guess not.

 

[b34stmode]

Your "absolute risk reduction" is an entirely asinine way of looking at it, since that can change immensely depending on any number of factors. Hey guess what? If you live in a cabin in the woods by yourself your absolute risk of getting Covid is about 0%. If you live in New York and take the Subway to work with a thousand other people every day, it's a tad higher. If you live in an area with no active cases, your absolute risk is very low. If that area suffers an outbreak because nobody is vaccinated, then your absolute risk increases tremendously.

Do you know what doesn't change? Your relative risk, which appears to be about 95% lower when vaccinated.

edit - Another thing that it doesn't seem to mention is that if a community is vaccinated, that also reduces your absolute risk, since fewer cases decreases the infection rate, which results in fewer cases, which reduces the infection rate, et cetera.

your edit is wrong. Being vaccinated doesn’t stop you from infecting others.

 

[jeremyemilio]

The "tiny percent of the population" is already 400k deaths deep here, and according to most experts, the vaccines can keep you from spreading to them

Even if the vaccine didn't stop the spread, that 400k becomes 20k according to these findings. It's pretty nuts to pretend that's somehow insignificant.

 

[Wolfbrigade]

Let's assume 1% of people die. With the vaccine, no one dies.

Lol - in the vaccine group people still got sick with covid.

Presume instead of the numbers being .74% and .04%, they were 50.74% and 50.04%.

??? That's still the same amount of reduction, a non reduction for a rational thinking human basically.

If you were to use the misleading and meaningless 'absolute' figure provided in this blog, it would still be a 0.7% reduction in 'absolute risk'. However, the actual efficacy of the hypothetical treatment is 1 - ( 50.04 / 50.74 ) = 1.38%.

You just proved that absolute risk is much more useful than relative risk, esentially you proved my point.

 

[phoenixikki]

Even if the vaccine didn't stop the spread, that 400k becomes 20k according to these findings. It's pretty nuts to pretend that's somehow insignificant.

Sure, old and sick people will live forever.

 

[Mcountry]

Israel is like 25 percent vaccinated. We should start seeing their curve get fucked up in a few weeks or so.

 

[Neph]

??? That's still the same amount of reduction, a non reduction for a rational thinking human basically.

You just proved that absolute risk is much more useful than relative risk, esentially you proved my point.

None of this is correct, and it is exactly the kind of trickery the person is trying to conjure. I'll provide a further example to highlight the point.

Let's imagine you have a cure for a particular kind of cancer, and cancer currently kills 0.7% of the population each year. That's bad, so you want to stop it.

The great thing is, this is actually a miracle cure and is 100% effective. It will save every single life. That's good.

The reason we express it as 100% effective is that it makes sense to us. You know it works perfectly, and nobody will ever die of that cancer again so long as they have access to the miracle cure.

Now we get to the trickery in the maths used on this blog. Because "only" 0.7% of the population die each year, you could be convinced that this is only "0.7%" good - a meaningless number, since a reduction from 50.7% to 50.0% is also "0.7%" good, as is from 100% to 99.3%. So let's not use that number, since it cannot be sensibly interpreted and is really just there to lie to you. Instead we recognise that going from 0.7% to 0.0% us a 100% reduction - a complete cure.

This same logic above is how the 95% efficacy of the vaccine has been calculated and why it matters.

 

[heloder]

People who were studied in the tiral aren't living in the woods, bro... Risk of cathcing covid was below 1% in placebo group.

This is called an example, used to help explain a particular concept, which appears to have gone completely over your head nonetheless.

your edit is wrong. Being vaccinated doesn’t stop you from infecting others.

There isn't enough data to make any claims as to how infectious vaccinated cases are compared to unvaccinated cases. Vaccines that reduce symptoms generally do reduce spread as well, but like I said that's something we'll learn more about going forward. The most important thing is that symptomatic cases are reduced tremendously with these vaccines.

 

[Wolfbrigade]

None of this is correct, and it is exactly the kind of trickery the person is trying to conjure. I'll provide a further example to highlight the point.

You are so wrong on this... Watch this:

Let's imagine you have a cure for a particular kind of cancer, and cancer currently kills 0.7% of the population each year. That's bad, so you want to stop it.

The great thing is, this is actually a miracle cure and is 100% effective. It will save every single life. That's good.

lol, sorry but you are a fool. I can make another example: there is a cancer that kills 10% of the population, but the cure is 90% effective, so relative risk reduction is 90%. Your miracle cure is more effective on paper percentage wise, but mine will save more lives, even though your cure reduces death to zero. This is why both numbers need to be used and absolute risk reduction is more accurate to paint the bigger picture. You are the one who actualy contorts this and manipulates.

You don't even understand this basic concept.

 

[Neph]

You are so wrong on this... Watch this:





lol, sorry but you are a fool. I can make another example: there is a cancer that kills 10% of the population, but the cure is 90% effective, so relative risk reduction is 90%. Your miracle cure is more effective on paper, but mine will save more lives, even though your cure reduces death to zero.You are the one who actualy contorts this and manipulates.

You don't even understand this basic concept.

Welp. I tried. I'm sorry you aren't very good at math.

Spoiler

 

[Orgasmo]

You can still catch the flu if you got the flu shot, but your symptoms will be significantly reduced. Even if a vaccine does not prevent infection, it can still provide a certain degree of protection.