PBF-Madonna 2 PPV numbers
- Thread starter snkst
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Not really. Leonard probably clearly beats any MW active today, let alone WWs. The only WW I'd see giving him significant problems is Floyd.
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I consider Floyd great too. But Leonard also considers himself greater than Floyd, and I do too.
I believe Floyd will be on the 2nd tier of ATG fighters. There is the top tier, where people say those guys are the absolute best and proved it. Then there will be a 2nd tier of guys who are extremely talented but are missing something the top tier has.
That's not exactly what I mean though. I think against the caliber opponent like Maidana, Floyd has the ability to not only beat him badly, but stop him. I truly believe Floyd has the ability to knock Maidana out, but since he might have to eat a few punches to do it, he chooses not to.
The reason why this matters to me is because in order for me to think he'd have a chance against Leonard, I'd have to know that he has a huge heart. If he doesn't have the guts to eat a punch to finish off Maidana, then why should I believe he has the guts to stick in there with Leonard? Leonard punches harder than Maidana and is as fast as Floyd.
The crazy thing is, Floyd has a great chin! The few times that Floyd eats a bad shot he is either unfazed or recovers quickly. He has the natural ability to finish guys off, he just doesn't care to do it.
No, it's great that he doesn't get beat on. But he plays it safe when he could go for the big finish, and to me that shows a lack of heart in some ways. I would have been jumping on the damn table at the bar if he knocked Canelo down, and I think he has that ability but doesn't have the guts to do it.
I know guts can backfire, but without that kind of intestinal fortitude you could never beat Tommy Hearns, SRL, etc.
Floyd has a good chin. Maidana cracked him square on the chin at the end of round 3 of the second fight. That shot would drop a LOT of welterweights.
Not high at all. He was an interesting fighter, but I think there are quite a few guys that would smash Willie Pep. I personally believe Pacquiao, Marquez, Morales, and probably Barrera would all beat Willie Pep.
Granted, I've only seen old clips of Pep. But he doesn't appear to be all that physically gifted compared to some modern fighters. I think there is an element of nostalgia in ranking Pep among the greatest fighters ever. Almost a mythical element to Pep.
"He once won a round without throwing a punch!" All that makes me wonder is why he didn't throw any punches that round, and how terrible his opponent must have been.
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Only one way to know.
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The thing is when he IS pushed (see: Augustus, Castillo) he DOES show guts.
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He shows some guts from time to time, and to be a champion for 2 decades you have to have heart. But we're comparing him to the greatest fighters in history, so that's why I'm using the highest possible standard.
I'm being hard on him because of how great he is, hopefully everyone realizes that. If I was comparing him to the average boxer then he'd have top marks in every category.
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I don't really get what you're saying here. He doesn't "show guts" because he doesn't need to. He's better than the guys he fights.
I don't really agree that Floyd hasn't been tested against adversity either. We've pointed out several fights where he's had to come back from being hurt or ate punches in a competitive fight.
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Floyd didnt dare to be great by fighting a beast of an undefeated mexican fighter or fight a ko artist like maidana
hmmm oh you must mean go toe to toe and take shots to see who goes down first. I get it
Canelo was such a beast alright. Before he fought Floyd, he was beating the likes of Alfonso Gomez and Mathew Hatton!
Wow what a killer!!!
Maidana is heavy handed, not a KO artist. Gennady is a KO artist.
Dare to be great like fighting this small Asian guy or go to mw and fight Gennady.
Armstrong and SRL dared to be great and challenged for the mw crown.
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Can't resist..... trying to ......
Canelo is no Chris Algieri!!!!11!
Seriosly, I'm not sure what you're getting at with Armstrong and Leonard. Floyds held more titles at more weights than Leonard, or its even at best. Leonard fought Donny LaLonde for his SMW/LHW belt. Hardly some killer.
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Leonard beat hagler for the middleweight crown
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If the likes of Chris John, Zahir Raheem and Junior Jones can have significant success boxing Marquez, Morales and Barrera, respectively, I really don't see any of them smashing a boxer as renowned and respected as Willie Pep. The majority of the video on Pep (maybe all of it), comes after he was clearly past his best, as well.
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It's not "very up for debate" that Leonard is far better than just about ever WW in the world right now other than Mayweather and maybe Pacquiao. I can't see anyone seriously disputing that. MW might be up for debate. Unless we're going for the we can't know anything for sure in fantasy matchups angle which is more or less presupposed in these debates.
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You can show guts by stopping guys that are way beneath you instead of being hesitant about taking a punch in the process.
At welterweight, not at middleweight. Huge difference there. But SRL was a much bigger man than Floyd, so I don't hold that against Floyd at all. Floyd hasn't even fought the best welterweights, which is something I do hold against him.
I don't know enough to make a strong argument on this. Based on my own observations, I don't see Willie Pep going 12 rounds with Manny Pacquiao. But I believe Pep had a serious back injury (It's been a while since I read about this) that changed how he fought, and I don't know how he looked before that.
Maybe Pep was truly great, I'm definitely not the person to take an authoritative stance on this, but if you ask me I'll tell you I personally don't see it. My Italian side would love to say he's the greatest Featherweight of all time, it's not like I'm biased against him.
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Well, he has rather clearly the greatest resume, for what it's worth.
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I'm aware. After beginning his career at 147.
Floyd started at 130 and won a championship at 147.
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Paulie Malignaggi couldn't knock out an 8 year old and he's one of the gutsiest fighters out there.
