PBF-Madonna 2 PPV numbers

[Cheese]

Was waiting to see when Wand would try and discredit the numbers.

 

[Seano]

I think its sort of sad that Mayweather PPV #'s are a subject of argument around here.

 

[nac386]

Personally, I prefer technique over concussions. KOs are fun and all, but I'd prefer to watch a fighter with great boxing skills. Always have. I've never been a big fan of the Brandon Rios type of fighters.


Heart is great too, but I've always maintained that if a fighter has to show heart often, it means he's doing something wrong technically. While I'm glad we have fights like the Gatti/Ward series etc, I'm glad there are also technicians out there like Floyd and even Hopkins, as much as I dislike the guy overall.


No one thinks that. I've never heard one poster here imply that they don't want to see KOs.

I see it fairly often actually. I think Cheese just said he didn't care to see Mayweather knock Maidana out, and thought coasting was the perfect strategy.

The other day I said I'd like to see Floyd fight Khan. I said Khan had the speed to challenge Mayweather in a new way, and it might force Mayweather do something that we haven't seen lately. I also said Khan has a questionable chin, and that could encourage Floyd to go for a knockout and he might actually be able to get one.

PUO responded to that by saying "Oh I get it...JUST BLEED" Since you know, obviously if I am excited about the potential for a knock out I should just give up on boxing after 28 years and watch MMA.


I love technical boxing too. But technical and tenacity are not mutually exclusive. You can have both, and I much prefer that guys charging $70 a ppv have both. Brandon Rios is an extreme, I've never enjoyed his fights. Gatti vs Ward is also an extreme, and I wouldn't want to see that very often.

The best fights are both technical and aggressive. That's what made boxing a huge sport, and to deny that would be silly. Mike Tyson wasn't a megastar because he coasted to easy victories. Neither was Ali, or hardly any ATG for that matter.

 

[Seano]

Floyd standing toe to toe and looking for a KO against Maidana would have been stupid. I did want to see what would happen if Floyd tried backing him up but what he did instead insured his victory.

Thats what a guy like Floyd does at his best. He takes away a guys best chance of winning. When he doesn't do that, like against Cotto or Maidana the first time, people say he's shot. Its not what he does best. Why should he not fight the best fight he can?

 

[Cheese]

I don't see what Floyd did as "Coasting". He fought a Perfect fight and Landed at a 51% connect ratio. What else is there for him to do.

 

[nac386]

Thats what a guy like Floyd does at his best. He takes away a guys best chance of winning. When he doesn't do that, like against Cotto or Maidana the first time, people say he's shot. Its not what he does best. Why should he not fight the best fight he can?

That's a good point. But I'd argue that even in the first Maidana fight he didn't try at all. Standing in front of Maidana isn't going for the kill, it's just dumb.

There was a point in the 1st fight when I thought Maidana was hurting and a bit worn out. Floyd could have turned it on just to see if he could get rid of him. If it didn't work, then no big deal. But I'd like to see him try.

If he doesn't want to fight that way then that's fine, but I think he has too many red flags to be considered with the very greatest of the great. He didn't fight everyone, and the guys he clearly outmatched he didn't show the courage to go for a knock out. He would not be able to simply outbox SRL, he would have to fight. Would he have the courage? We KNOW that SRL had the courage because he chose to fight Hearns, Duran, and Haglar. We know how SRL would respond if he got hurt, because we saw what he did against Hearns.

Based on that, I'd say SRL knocks Floyd out. I know he's a bad MF'er. Floyd might be, but he never cares enough to prove it. In my opinion, you have to prove it to be considered with the very greatest.

 

[nac386]

I don't see what Floyd did as "Coasting". He fought a Perfect fight and Landed at a 51% connect ratio. What else is there for him to do.

Well, to me the thing to do was not fight Maidana twice. I thought he dominated the first fight for the most part and was impressed by him. But if you're going to fight him twice, and you're landing 51% of your shots, then the thing to do is to throw more punches and knock the guy out to reward the fans for spending $150 on the same fight, and to build your legacy you so zealously claim is the greatest in the history of the sport.

 

[Cheese]

I agree, i wish he would have fought someone else instead of the rematch. It was pointless, we knew after the first fight who the better fighter was.

And wouldn't mind seeing a Khan fight but not just to see Floyd KO him but to see if Khan can use his speed and jab to put Floyd into a spot we haven't see since Zab.

 

[nac386]

I agree, i wish he would have fought someone else instead of the rematch. It was pointless, we knew after the first fight who the better fighter was.

And wouldn't mind seeing a Khan fight but not just to see Floyd KO him but to see if Khan can use his speed and jab to put Floyd into a spot we haven't see since Zab.

And that' EXACTLY what I had said about it. I said he hasn't fought someone with that kind of quickness since Zab and I'd love to see how he handles it now. His fights recently have been against guys he's so much faster than we end up seeing the same fight from Floyd over and over.

The knockout potential was an after thought that was jumped on for some reason. But part of winning is focusing on the opponent's weakness. SRL knew he couldn't KO Duran so he didn't try. But Floyd really might be able to KO Khan, and I'm sure he will know that going in. That does affect the fight. It just adds an interesting dimension we don't get from Floyd fights very often. Call me crazy, but I like it that the possibility is there.

 

[Seano]

And that' EXACTLY what I had said about it. I said he hasn't fought someone with that kind of quickness since Zab and I'd love to see how he handles it now. His fights recently have been against guys he's so much faster than we end up seeing the same fight from Floyd over and over.

The knockout potential was an after thought that was jumped on for some reason. But part of winning is focusing on the opponent's weakness. SRL knew he couldn't KO Duran so he didn't try. But Floyd really might be able to KO Khan, and I'm sure he will know that going in. That does affect the fight. It just adds an interesting dimension we don't get from Floyd fights very often. Call me crazy, but I like it that the possibility is there.

Leonard didn't try to KO duran? He certainly did in the first fight and he lost. He lost because he didn't fight the fight that he should have fought and fought his opponents fight instead.

Thats the difference between Floyd and Leonard. Leonard had to learn the hard way.

 

[nac386]

Leonard didn't try to KO duran? He certainly did in the first fight and he lost. He lost because he didn't fight the fight that he should have fought and fought his opponents fight instead.

Thats the difference between Floyd and Leonard. Leonard had to learn the hard way.

I know you're going to disagree with this. But I don't think Floyd has ever fought anyone the caliber of Roberto Duran. Maidana is certainly not even comparable. I think SRL would put Maidana down and out in the first fight and they wouldn't fight a 2nd time. That's what I think separates Floyd from the very top ATG fighters.

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

Was waiting to see when Wand would try and discredit the numbers.

Not me, Rafael. Learn to read noob

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

I know you're going to disagree with this. But I don't think Floyd has ever fought anyone the caliber of Roberto Duran. Maidana is certainly not even comparable. I think SRL would put Maidana down and out in the first fight and they wouldn't fight a 2nd time. That's what I think separates Floyd from the very top ATG fighters.

Same. Some in here forget the term, "Dare to be Great!"

 

[JayElectra]

I know you're going to disagree with this. But I don't think Floyd has ever fought anyone the caliber of Roberto Duran. Maidana is certainly not even comparable. I think SRL would put Maidana down and out in the first fight and they wouldn't fight a 2nd time. That's what I think separates Floyd from the very top ATG fighters.

How high do you rate Willie Pep?

 

[Seano]

I know you're going to disagree with this. But I don't think Floyd has ever fought anyone the caliber of Roberto Duran. Maidana is certainly not even comparable. I think SRL would put Maidana down and out in the first fight and they wouldn't fight a 2nd time. That's what I think separates Floyd from the very top ATG fighters.

Duran was a great fighter. I do think Floyd has fought some guys with good resumes though. Maybe not better, but comparable. Compare wins and losses, Marquez compares favorably to Duran.

You're assuming this likely because you've heard me argue against Duran in ATG conversations. Duran was a great undoubtedly and one of the best LWs in the history of the sport. But he did lose to pretty much every great fighter he ever fought and sometimes in embarrassing fashion.

I believe Floyd has beaten a better level of competition than Duran has overall but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone Floyd has fought is "better" than Duran.

 

[Strange King]

I know you're going to disagree with this. But I don't think Floyd has ever fought anyone the caliber of Roberto Duran. Maidana is certainly not even comparable. I think SRL would put Maidana down and out in the first fight and they wouldn't fight a 2nd time. That's what I think separates Floyd from the very top ATG fighters.

Floyd is a high alltime great. if you down grade him because he you think SRL puts him down is just personal opinion but still does not change the fact how great floyd is.

Fighters arent all the same and to say that srl would do something to a certain caliber today is very up to debate

 

[Strange King]

Same. Some in here forget the term, "Dare to be Great!"

Floyd didnt dare to be great by fighting a beast of an undefeated mexican fighter or fight a ko artist like maidana

hmmm oh you must mean go toe to toe and take shots to see who goes down first. I get it

 

[Seano]

Hearns and Leonard both consider Floyd great.

 

[Strange King]

I've never heard anyone say they don't understand why GSP or Mayweather fight the way they do. Some people just want more for their money.


One of the main reasons I've been a lifelong boxing fan is because of the amount of heart it takes to get through 12 rounds. There isn't another sport (in my mind) that is as grueling as boxing. These guys have to dig so deep within themselves to finish fights sometimes that it's truly inspiring.


That is why I am a huge Cotto fan, a huge Pacquiao fan, etc. They have amazing skills and technical ability, but they also possess something special that most people don't have. Something you're born with, not something you get from training.


Floyd has not had to show that, so I don't know if he has it. He's never been in a fight like Cotto vs Margarito/Pacquiao/Clottey. Or a Pacquiao vs Morales type fight. I know that people say, "Well he's just that good, he doesn't have to," but there are other ways to show it. For example, he could have put Canelo on the mat instead of coasting. He could have put Maidana and Guerrero down too. Or at LEAST he could have tried. It would have put him at a slightly higher risk, but it's something that all the greats did.


Say what you want about Sugar Ray Leonard, but the dude didn't coast very often. When he saw blood, he went for the kill. Most of the greats had that, and Floyd doesn't really have it. When we talk about him ranking with the greats I have trouble putting him with those guys because I have no idea what Floyd would even do if he had to really dig deep because he avoids that at all costs right now.


I've noticed some people on this forum seem to think knockouts are below them or something. I've seen people on here imply that hoping for action packed fights makes someone a less knowledgable boxing fan. That's absolutely ridiculous and can't believe you could say that with a straight face. This sport was BUILT on action. All the greatest fighters of all time were action fighters. If you watch boxing hoping for defensive wizardry and a low punch output then that is perfectly fine. But that does NOT make you a better fan or make you seem like you understand boxing more than anyone else.

Very well spoken but basically you are basing your ranking because you never seen floyd go through trouble. He was just in a fight where the guy mauled him but floyd still made that look easy.

If a guy makes it look easy he cant be in the top.

I like your posts but that is rediculous.

 

[Seano]

Very well spoken but basically you are basing your ranking because you never seen floyd go through trouble. He was just in a fight where the guy mauled him but floyd still made that look easy.

If a guy makes it look easy he cant be in the top.

I like your posts but that is rediculous.

There are a lot of people that imply that not getting his ass kicked somehow means he's not great. I've never understood that mentality.