So what do you guys consider ring generalship?
And isnt coming forward relentlessly a skill? Hatton is a simple fighter but I was amazed at his footwork and relentless pressure on Mayweather. I think he comes forward better than Cotto but thats the only thing he does better than him.
Calzaghe ain't losing to a guy like Kelly Pavlik, bro.
Classically ring-generalship is the ability to use the entire ring for both offense and defense, and control of the pace of the fight. If a come-forward fighter mostly follows as opposed to cutting off, then he's not really the one in the lead even if he's winning the battle of hands.
I don't think Hatton comes forward that much better than Cotto necessarily, I think Cotto's slower of foot but he's got the better footwork of the two overall, as he showed against Abdullaev and Mosley, he can fight going backwards very well.
How would you classify fighting going backwards?
Because in the later rounds of the Mosley fight, Cotto was losing rounds primarily because Mosley was dictating the fight. Cotto not Mosley was the one being backed down and having to fight off the ropes. With that said Cotto was better than I thought when going backwards but I think if a fighter can sustain that pressure throughout the fight, Cotto could be exploited. Would you agree?
What do you mean "classify"...? There were those who were brilliant at it, like Azumah Nelson versus Fenech, and those who suck at it, like Miranda vs. Pavlik.
Cotto was losing rounds, because Shane was coming on strong, but who knows what would have happened had that fight been 15 rounds like it should have been. Would Cotto have dug-down and fought back harder? Would Shane have become the tank? This is why I hate 12 rounders only. But you're saying if a Fighter could be Shane Mosley going forward then Cotto could be exploited. Sure, with that hand and foot-speed, he could be. But Abdullaev got beaten stupid for it, and he was at a better weight for him, worse weight for Cotto, and he's a better pressure-Fighter IMO, hence Cotto HAVING to fight him on the back foot.
So you think the hand/foot speed was giving Cotto the most trouble and do you think Margarito can give Cotto problems and back him up or does he lack the qualities that would give Cotto difficulties?
Agree.Pavlik is a good fighter, but he's not that good. Certainly not "best fighter in the world" potential.
Look at the list of men who have carried that title:
Ray Robinson
Roberto Duran
Muhammad Ali
Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Pernell Whitaker
Mike Tyson
Roy Jones Jr
Floyd Mayweather
Julio Cesar Chavez
Kelly Pavlik? Hmmm.
Calzaghe ain't losing to a guy like Kelly Pavlik, bro.
In all seriousness. All this is what makes Kelly Pavlik interesting to watch. He does so many things that are considered fundimentals so average yet he somehow finds a way to make it so effective.
His style, no matter who he beats, will never put him at the top P4P lists tho. Because he has great punching power and is so long and tall he is able to win with his physical gifts alone. He would have no answer to a guy taller, stronger and faster than him.
I doubt he would have an answer against a guy with no interests in trading punches, no care whether the fight is boring, with great handspeed and a great chin as well.
#1 Bigger, stronger, faster guy
#2 Slick, boring, can take a punch guy.
Thats Pavliks weakness I think. He isnt versatile like a Mayweather who can beat any type of boxer and who relies on more than physical gifts but more-so Boxing skill.
Pavlik is a good fighter, but he's not that good. Certainly not "best fighter in the world" potential.
Look at the list of men who have carried that title:
Ray Robinson
Roberto Duran
Muhammad Ali
Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Pernell Whitaker
Mike Tyson
Roy Jones Jr
Floyd Mayweather
Julio Cesar Chavez
Kelly Pavlik? Hmmm.
Of course I agree that he isnt on that list yet, but it is ludacris to say that he doesn't have the potential to make it on the list (based on his current run).
There is no reason Pavlik can't get on that list. We have no way of knowing how good or great he will be until the end of his career.
Up until this point, though, it's hard to argue that the guy isn't the best at Middleweight. He has done everything needed to carry himself on the upper echelon of Middleweights, stopping the current champ, defeating him soundly in the rematch, and pummeling all other contenders on his way up. He needs more top level opposition, in order to garner the recognition as best fighter now.
Of course I agree that he isnt on that list yet, but it is ludacris to say that he doesn't have the potential to make it on the list (based on his current run).
Tyson?
LOL. Sorry, I had to.
But those fans never figured in Jermaine Taylor's fragile psyche. Comparing Taylor to Calzaghe is like comparing a rape victim to a spetznatz commando. Taylor is always twitchy, tense, and unsure, while Calzaghe can be summed up in two words - Iron Will.I remember a few Jermain Taylor fans said that