Opinion: Takedowns/Grappling Scoring needs to be changed

[khabib time]

I’m tired of seeing guys get credit and be given points by judges for takedowns when they abandon it, or don’t properly secure their opponent after the takedown. And I’m tired of someone leaning someone on the fence and getting credit for a “dominant position”.


Let’s be clear here, getting out of a takedown, or escaping from your opponents ground game, or reversing a position is just as much “grappling” as a takedown. Points should only be scored if the fighter not only uses the position or move, but also does something with it. Otherwise, in my opinion, the escape often times negates the “grappling advantage” gained on the scorecards and fighters should be considered equal.

The judges need to understand the difference between grappling, takedowns, aggression and effective takedowns, grappling, and aggression. An example would be Askren vs Maia. Askren got the takedowns but Maia's grappling was more effective (sweep, submission attempts, control). Also when a fighter uses so much energy to land a takedown and finally gets it to only have his opponent spring back up that is not worth anything. He just used a lot of energy in his gas tank (think of a video game). I just think the judges don't understand what effective techniques are sometimes.

 

[froggyluv]

The worst is when a guy literally just spends the entire round tryna pull a double on a guy up against the wall for an entire round - finally pulls the legs out (but never really controlling the hips) and the guy just stands right back up -ding ding end of f'n round.

 

[Iroh]

They should score successful TDs, but not to a degree that they can simply win you the round if it's basically all you did.

 

[MMAViewer]

If I take you down and I am not successful in keeping you down or if I don't do damage while you are down then there should not be a large advantage on the score card.
That said if nothing else happened then the guy who got the take down still has the edge in points over the guy who did nothing more than get up after the takedown.

 

[Drugstore Cowboy]

Parrying, blocking and avoiding shots should also be scored.

Aldo beat Volkanovski, Reyes beat Oezdemir, Adesanya beat Vettori and Johnson beat Cejudo. Deal with it.

 

[DaWrassler007]

I’m tired of seeing guys get credit and be given points by judges for takedowns when they abandon it, or don’t properly secure their opponent after the takedown. And I’m tired of someone leaning someone on the fence and getting credit for a “dominant position”.


Let’s be clear here, getting out of a takedown, or escaping from your opponents ground game, or reversing a position is just as much “grappling” as a takedown. Points should only be scored if the fighter not only uses the position or move, but also does something with it. Otherwise, in my opinion, the escape often times negates the “grappling advantage” gained on the scorecards and fighters should be considered equal.

Long story short, wrasslers ruin this sport

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

The worst is when a guy literally just spends the entire round tryna pull a double on a guy up against the wall for an entire round - finally pulls the legs out (but never really controlling the hips) and the guy just stands right back up -ding ding end of f'n round.

Right, and at that point, if you ask me, the guy who’s been defending takedowns all fight was by far and away the better grappler

 

[Mahkor]

If a fighter doesn't do shit with the TD, it shouldn't count in the scoring imo, lay n pray and stalling need to be dealt with.

 

[Roy D Rayge]

If the person who got taken down immediately gets back up they should also be awarded points. If the person who shoots the TD and lays n prays and/or stalls and it's stood up by the ref, the initial TD points awarded should be nullified imo.

 

[JoshR86]

It’s also hard to do a double back flip, that doesn’t mean it was an effective technique in a fight.

There are other factors. They have octagon control, they are the aggressor.

Removing it from the scoring criteria because it doesn't meet 1 of the many judging criterias*damage*, is ridiculous. Go watch K-1 if you dont like it. Because removing wrestling feom equation will leave you with a bunch of Strikers with average TDD

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

It's not the rules, it's a misinterpretation of the rules.

 

[JoshR86]

If the person who got taken down immediately gets back up they should also be awarded points. If the person who shoots the TD and lays n prays and/or stalls and it's stood up by the ref, the initial TD points awarded should be nullified imo.

So you think the one who got taken down and just stalled the fight should be given either the nod or the atleast. Draw?.

Yup makes sense

 

[Roy D Rayge]

So you think the one who got taken down and just stalled the fight should be given either the nod or the atleast. Draw?.

Yup makes sense

I think you misunderstood. The person who stalls is the person who got the TD and does nothing with it.

 

[Blayt7hh]

The judges don’t seem to give them much for it anymore. I refute your assumption TS

 

[Lawrence]

I’m tired of seeing guys get credit and be given points by judges for takedowns when they abandon it, or don’t properly secure their opponent after the takedown. And I’m tired of someone leaning someone on the fence and getting credit for a “dominant position”.


Let’s be clear here, getting out of a takedown, or escaping from your opponents ground game, or reversing a position is just as much “grappling” as a takedown. Points should only be scored if the fighter not only uses the position or move, but also does something with it. Otherwise, in my opinion, the escape often times negates the “grappling advantage” gained on the scorecards and fighters should be considered equal.

I don't have anything empirical, but I think that fewer rounds are being scored for takedowns alone.

Although it happens less and less, I still love to see the look of frustration on a fighters face when they get taken down in the last 10 seconds of a round they were clearly dominating... Seeing them process the fear that the judges are going to fuck them again.... I'm not saying it's right... But it's funny.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

It's not the rules, it's a misinterpretation of the rules.

I think commentary sometimes encourages this scoring. I’m sure you’ve heard joe rogan emphasize the importance of a takedown going into the end of a round before, and how devastating it will be on the judges cards.

In my opinion, that’s encouraging and validating shitty scoring.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

The judges don’t seem to give them much for it anymore. I refute your assumption TS

Go watch the Mighty Mouse cejudo fight and tell me I’m wrong.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

I think commentary sometimes encourages this scoring. I’m sure you’ve heard joe rogan emphasize the importance of a takedown going into the end of a round before, and how devastating it will be on the judges cards.

In my opinion, that’s encouraging and validating shitty scoring.

The new unified rules were supposed to correct this. They did to some degree. Judges are just retarded. You can take a random off the street and they would have a better idea of who won a fight. Because it's a fight. It's not that complicated. It's not some point scoring system, it's just who fought better.

They should just let the great folks who post on Sherdog score the fights.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

If I take you down and I am not successful in keeping you down or if I don't do damage while you are down then there should not be a large advantage on the score card.
That said if nothing else happened then the guy who got the take down still has the edge in points over the guy who did nothing more than get up after the takedown.

You bring up a good point, because sometimes we do see rounds where the amount of effective techniques and damage is so low that it magnifies the takedown. I just don’t think a kid-utilized takedown should get someone “ahead” in an even, or stalemate bout. As I’ve said, if you take me down, and I get up, one could argue we’ve both used effective grappling to control where the fight takes place. One was proactive, and one was reactive.

I do think taking down a fighter, and successfully disabling their ability to move should have some value, just not this magnified “if your on top, your gaining points over time regardless of activity” mentality.

 

[JustBleed69]

Quick follow up ^ this is exactly why cejudo shouldn’t have been given the win over Mighty Mouse.

Takedowns are offensive, Defending Takedowns is defensive . Hence the name.

Also Cejudo 49-46, DJ didn't do shit that fight.