Opinion: Takedowns/Grappling Scoring needs to be changed

[Zebra Cheeks]

I’m tired of seeing guys get credit and be given points by judges for takedowns when they abandon it, or don’t properly secure their opponent after the takedown. And I’m tired of someone leaning someone on the fence and getting credit for a “dominant position”.


Let’s be clear here, getting out of a takedown, or escaping from your opponents ground game, or reversing a position is just as much “grappling” as a takedown. Points should only be scored if the fighter not only uses the position or move, but also does something with it. Otherwise, in my opinion, the escape often times negates the “grappling advantage” gained on the scorecards and fighters should be considered equal.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

Quick follow up ^ this is exactly why cejudo shouldn’t have been given the win over Mighty Mouse.

 

[Megatronlee]

Do you know how hard it is to take somebody down? It’s hard. They deserve all the points in the world for litterally bringing somebody down so hard their legs can’t keep them standing

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

Do you know how hard it is to take somebody down? It’s hard. They deserve all the points in the world for litterally bringing somebody down so hard their legs can’t keep them standing

It’s also hard to do a double back flip, that doesn’t mean it was an effective technique in a fight.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

Do you know how hard it is to take somebody down? It’s hard. They deserve all the points in the world for litterally bringing somebody down so hard their legs can’t keep them standing

Also, do you realize how hard it is to get off the ground with someone the same weight as you on top of you?

 

[613]

It’s also hard to do a double back flip, that doesn’t mean it was an effective technique in a fight.

Fucking terrible comparison. A double back flip is not being defended. If you are trying to drag someone from their feet and you do so with them defending, you should get some points. Less so than they score, but some

 

[KING BONES]

getting wrestlef*cked sucks

 

[613]

Also, do you realize how hard it is to get off the ground with someone the same weight as you on top of you?

Hard, but you are also just trying to get back to the starting position so its not the same thing

 

[Slatersan]

Ts is conor

 

[TheJohnnyWalkerEra]

Agreed 100%

Takedowns are garbage unless someone does something with them

Khabib for example, he smashes the fuck out of people after a takedown. Other D1 chumps are terrible fighters and escape with BS decisions

 

[Portland8242]

Do you know how hard it is to take somebody down? It’s hard. They deserve all the points in the world for litterally bringing somebody down so hard their legs can’t keep them standing

OP isn't saying it shouldn't be scored positively.

He's likely referring to fighters like Fitch who land a takedown (which they absolutely should be granted credit for on the scorecards) but do very, very little with it.

For instance, if you outstrike someone for 2 minutes in a round, but they land a TD and lay on you for the other 3 mins of the round - IMO the guy who outstruck him should 100% win the round over the guy who just laid on him pitter-pattering him, doing just enough activity to not get stood up for inactivity.

The judges will give the guy who got the TD and laid on the other fighter the round 99/100 times.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

Agreed 100%

Takedowns are garbage unless someone does something with them

Khabib for example, he smashes the fuck out of people after a takedown. Other D1 chumps are terrible fighters and escape with BS decisions

Exactly, khabib hurts people. He gets into positions where he folds people up like lawn chairs and beats them to a pulp. But flinging yourself at another human being like a football player, only have them to get up after is pointless, a la Yoel romero. It should not score points unless it’s done damage, or been used to do damage.

 

[Megatronlee]

OP isn't saying it shouldn't be scored positively.

He's likely referring to fighters like Fitch who land a takedown (which they absolutely should be granted credit for on the scorecards) but do very, very little with it.

I mean if you can’t get up you’re losing imo. That person DECIDED the standing portion is over. If you can’t pop back up just as eagerly it really makes a compelling statement

 

[Portland8242]

I mean if you can’t get up you’re losing imo. That person DECIDED the standing portion is over. If you can’t pop back up just as eagerly it really makes a compelling statement

I edited my post to expand on my point.

 

[josephsjoseph]

i agree a takedown should be secured to really score anything of worth
a failed takedown where a fighter is grabbed and put or thrown to the floor but they pop back up immediately should count for much but it should count of something they aren't landing on pillows and it does mean something if you can keep your opponent on the defense.

I think once on the ground fighters should be penalized if they are not showing effective offense. as in significant strikes , advancing position and maintaining dominant positions. don't just sit in someone guard and play the defense game to ride the round out. how to penalize them I'm not sure. I don't think standing them up is the solution though. they should just be incentivized by something to go for a finish and threaten the opponent. same for bottom. don't just hold guard and play defense if you keep getting taken down. attack. strike. submissions. sweeps.

cage fighting is a martial art in it self. but they should be incentivized to go for the takedown. advance position land significant strikes. If a guy is standing there trying the same take down and failing for three minutes that should be a penalty . they should show they are trying something else or considering it stalling or give the advantage to the other guy.

sometimes they do score fights for the guy on bottom if he does enough. its not common enough there. there is a lot that could be changed.

 

[Rebel_LioN]

Do you know how hard it is to take somebody down? It’s hard. They deserve all the points in the world for litterally bringing somebody down so hard their legs can’t keep them standing

what if you get your ass beat for 4 mins and 50 seconds but get a takedown for 10 seconds?

because that’s how judges are scoring it right now.

once you land that last 10 second takedown you automatically win the round.

dont @Me

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

OP isn't saying it shouldn't be scored positively.

He's likely referring to fighters like Fitch who land a takedown (which they absolutely should be granted credit for on the scorecards) but do very, very little with it.

For instance, if you outstrike someone for 2 minutes in a round, but they land a TD and lay on you for the other 3 mins of the round - IMO the guy who outstruck him should 100% win the round over the guy who just laid on him pitter-pattering him, doing just enough activity to not get stood up for inactivity.

The judges will give the guy who got the TD and laid on the other fighter the round 99/100 times.

And half the time, the striker manages to escape. And even though the judges are supposed to score effective striking above any other category based on the new unified rules, they absolutely do not in a majority of fights. It’s like if we have a close fight the default thing to do is who got a takedown regardless of what was done with it.

 

[PicoPulse]

Man..... idk Zebra Cheeks

 

[Portland8242]

And half the time, the striker manages to escape. And even though the judges are supposed to score effective striking above any other category based on the new unified rules, they absolutely do not in a majority of fights. It’s like if we have a close fight the default thing to do is who got a takedown regardless of what was done with it.

I agree 100%, like you referenced Cejudo didn't do jack shit with the TD's he landed on mighty mouse. On the feet, there was maybe 1 round where Cejudo got the better of him in striking. I also had mighty mouse winning the fight.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

i agree a takedown should be secured to really score anything of worth
a failed takedown where a fighter is grabbed and put or thrown to the floor but they pop back up immediately should count for much but it should count of something they aren't landing on pillows and it does mean something if you can keep your opponent on the defense.

I think once on the ground fighters should be penalized if they are not showing effective offense. as in significant strikes , advancing position and maintaining dominant positions. don't just sit in someone guard and play the defense game to ride the round out. how to penalize them I'm not sure. I don't think standing them up is the solution though. they should just be incentivized by something to go for a finish and threaten the opponent. same for bottom. don't just hold guard and play defense if you keep getting taken down. attack. strike. submissions. sweeps.

cage fighting is a martial art in it self. but they should be incentivized to go for the takedown. advance position land significant strikes. If a guy is standing there trying the same take down and failing for three minutes that should be a penalty . they should show they are trying something else or considering it stalling or give the advantage to the other guy.

sometimes they do score fights for the guy on bottom if he does enough. its not common enough there. there is a lot that could be changed.

Right, in standup we have the “moving forward %” to show how aggressive someone is being. It’s almost like on the ground we don’t give a shit how hard or soft they are going. And honestly in the current system, I’d you can’t finish a guy on the ground, there’s very little incentive to do anything but pitter patter shots to look busy