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Ongoing Team Lloyd Irvin Scandal - Part 6

Newverse said:
Mateo was offered plea deals, did not accept them, fought in a 10 month trial that scrutinized everything you've heard plus much more, and now he has to fight to make a living after being exonerated. How on earth can you call that luck? He did not win his trial because he was rich, affiliated, or because of any loophole or technicality.

And please do not turn this into a personal attack, I am not defending rape, I am not defending abusing women, I am trying to be as respectful and civil as possible, given a very volatile and clearly anger-inducing topic. Please do not try to read this as a challenge to your morals, just a plea to understand more before declaring yourself a moral authority.
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See now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Money. Somebody had to pay for those defense lawyers, had to be at least 6 figures. Parents probably had to empty their retirement accounts, or hock all the equity in their house to pay that bill. Now you are coming here, and Victor is on Facebook with his justice for Matt nonsense. I'm sure you all figure that his best chance of making some scratch to pay everyone back is as a Martial Arts Instructor, but its not. This is going to follow him forever.

People don't want to ask a rapist for help learning how to choke someone unconscious, or punch someone in the face. Its just creepy. Regardless of what you may think, the vast majority of the world when they hear the undisputed facts in this case, think your boy is scum, you can't change that with message board posts. Tell him to go learn a trade, he's young, plumbers and electricians do quite well in NYC.
 
Newverse said:
What I was trying to say, that Rambo corrected, was simple association. If you are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and are not proven guilty, then logically, one can be presumed innocent.
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No, see, that's the point that I was trying to argue against. A legal presumption is a rhetorical fiction. You're not actually innocent, they just presume you to be innocent, in that specific context, for the specific purpose of a criminal trial.

The purpose is that since a criminal trial deals with the deprivation of one's physical liberty, the State sets a very high burden of proof, and for the sake of argument, takes innocence as a starting point. It's not enough to convince the jury that he probably did it. "More likely than not" is not a sufficient degree of certainty for a criminal trial, not is "probably," but either standard is a perfectly acceptable threshold for people to form their own personal opinions and express them.

It does not mean that there is any basis for thinking the person is innocent. The presumption of innocence has no bearing in an argument that is not taking place in the context of a criminal trial. Public opinion is not the State, and we can't put Mateo in prison, and there's no logical basis for presuming that he is innocent. We can ask for a great deal of information on which to base our judgments (and from what I've seen from following the case, if he's not a rapist then he's an awful human being at best). But we don't have to adopt legal standards that exist for the sake of argument to protect a person's physical liberty.

Sorry for the rant. I get what you're saying, you think the argument has been one-sided. It has been. I think that's because people have made their judgments based on what they have been presented with, and through the thousands of posts on here that has been a lot of information. Jurors coming out saying that the basis of their failure to convict was the blurriness of the video, doesn't help. Defenders of Mateo have alluded to the "secret" exculpatory evidence that only the jury knew about, but nobody has revealed what that might be.
 
AcesUp22 said:
Newverse keeps speaking of "the other evidence". Why not share the evidence with us? Probably because it is bullsht.
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This. There isn't anything else. That video is all that I need to know that they are guilty
 
CARA_2786875a.jpg
 
So fucking pertinent.

From that article...
This is all why it's doubly important, then, to support the push for states and universities and other institutions to create an affirmative consent standard, where both parties should display a "demonstrated intent to have sex" in order for it to be considered consent. Looking for a woman who said "yes" (or any variation of it, which can be expressed in a variety of ways, both verbal and nonverbal) instead of focusing on whether she said no in exactly the right words will help put the role alcohol plays into focus. It will clear up some of the murky gray areas, such as cases where a woman is too drunk to be articulate in her refusals but not so drunk that she passes out. It will also offer a degree of protection for scared men, because a somewhat intoxicated woman who explicitly asks for sex will have a hard time convincing the courts she hasn't "demonstrated intent" to bone. It's an easy way to get more guilty men convicted while offering protection for innocent men.
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Back to the current debate... Newverse has certainly brought the most articulate discourse on Maldonado's actions to the table, none of which negates the fact that semi-insular communities have the ability to self-police. Public opinion counts for a lot, especially when you market yourself as a self-defense instructor for women. While a hand full people would argue that the police report is a lie, or that it's biased, it is a publicly available sworn statement that documents his actions not only as reported by the victim, but the video surveillance footage that captured the crime from inception to completion.

Again, the proclamations of innocence on the actual accusation of rape are only somewhat relevant; The abandonment of a heavily intoxicated sexual partner in the environmental conditions that existed on that evening have caused a lot of people to assert that neither of those two guys should be in a position of authority over women. In context, most women would not be comfortable taking a self defense class that catered to their gender, especially if it put them in close, semi-intimate contact with an instructor who had been acquitted of rape.
 
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the heed said:
Obviously this guy is friends with one of the defendants. And he can't separate himself from what actually happened.

Like JosephDredd said, even if this wasn't rape, they still had sex with a really drunk girl who blacking out (which is date rape), BASHED HER HEAD AND LEFT HER UNCONSCIOUS BY HERSELF at a parking lot. That still makes both of them full on scum bags. Just having sex with a drunk/blacking out girl is creepy enough, let alone just leaving her at a parking lot passed out by herself.

No matter how good of a friend you are with someone, this kind of right and wrong is CLEAR CUT. One walked away free due to a faulty justice system.

Defending this kind of action because you are friends with them or like them, shows you just how screwed up this society is becoming.
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Maybe they both lost their virginity that night and got scared the girl would think they had small dicks so they bailed?
 
After reading the reviews for Gotham Gym on Facebook, I'm convinced that all of his defenders are family, friends, and personal acquaintances. And I'm disturbed by the fact that his group has nearly 3000 supporters.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
After reading the reviews for Gotham Gym on Facebook, I'm convinced that all of his defenders are family, friends, and personal acquaintances. And I'm disturbed by the fact that his group has nearly 3000 supporters.
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Yeah. Hopefully most of them have no clue.

I had a friend, who ended up being accused several times for gripping and what not. I dont talk to him anymore. Friendship shouldn't trump morals
 
ElKarlo said:
Yeah. Hopefully most of them have no clue.

I had a friend, who ended up being accused several times for gripping and what not. I dont talk to him anymore. Friendship shouldn't trump morals
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People all attest to what a nice guy he is. They say that about serial killers too. Almost always, he was just a regular guy, if you got to know him he would never do anything wrong. Until he did. Those testimonials mean jack to me. It means more to me that the only people defending him are the people least likely to look at the situation objectively.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
After reading the reviews for Gotham Gym on Facebook, I'm convinced that all of his defenders are family, friends, and personal acquaintances. And I'm disturbed by the fact that his group has nearly 3000 supporters.
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You can buy likes on facebook. Its stupid, but possible. I would look more at the fact that the only one that seems to be posting in the group is his father and more revealing than the 3k likes. Everyone else who's tried to post anything contrary to the group's mission has been deleted. I see very few comments in support, which is something you would expect if those supporters were real.

I think its much more likely, he has a small, but fervent echo chamber of enablers around him telling him he what he wants to hear than 3k people across the world who believe in his innocence.
 
zzung said:
That Yelp user has Maldonado-related reviews of two "Gotham" locations:
Gotham Gym, 600 Washington St NY 10014, and
Gotham Jiu-Jitsu, 1 W 22nd St NY 10010, run by a Renzo Brown Belt.

Is there any relation between the two?
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I think Gotham JJ just does privates, it Isn't actually gym. Can anyone confirm that is Mateo's voice on the recording?
 
The most popular city for likes on The Justice for Matt page is Istanbul, Turkey. Not suspicious at all...
 
I can't even follow this story anymore. It's too sickening.

I gotta relegate it to the vault of ultra bad shit that has happened in BJJ that I am aware of but don't think about. Cameron Earle. Rafiel Torre. Hermes Franca. Ryan Gracie. LLoyd Irvin.

Keep fighting the good fight dudes, but I'm out
 
LaBrian said:
You can buy likes on facebook. Its stupid, but possible. I would look more at the fact that the only one that seems to be posting in the group is his father and more revealing than the 3k likes. Everyone else who's tried to post anything contrary to the group's mission has been deleted. I see very few comments in support, which is something you would expect if those supporters were real.

I think its much more likely, he has a small, but fervent echo chamber of enablers around him telling him he what he wants to hear than 3k people across the world who believe in his innocence.
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yep, for $6 per day, you get an approx 30 likes.
 
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