One more reason local funding for public schools needs to change.

[chardog]

Actually, private schools don't outperform public schools when it comes to student perforance, with the exception of the extremely elite prep schools and Jesuit schools. Everything else is pretty much on par with public.

It's a common misconception. One that private schools understandably don't broadcast.

Now, you might prefer the social environment better. That's a real difference.

I've had my kids in both private and public schools, I myself have attended both private and public schools, the private schools will have better students with some caveats.

it's not even close in my district, and it's about as close to apples and apples comparison with schools only a 1/4 mile apart. One is the worst public school in the district, and the other an above average private school.

 

[bobgeese]

Education outcomes can't be boiled down to a single variable. Parental involvement is important but so is the actual learning environment.

I didn't link the source but it's mentioned in the OP. A growing body of research shows that the quality of the learning environment impacts how kids respond to education. Which make sense.

If you went to work in a run down hole in the wall, you'd feel less positively about your job. Especially if someone else with the exact same job had a beautiful top floor office with all the amenities. It would telegraph to you that your company doesn't value you the same way the other company values it's employees.

While this is a perfectly fine model in business or in private schools, it shouldn't happen in what is supposedly a public good. It tells children from poor schools that their education isn't seen as equally important to the education of children from better neighborhoods.

Just improving the quality of the facilities actually lowers dropout rates. Things like that deserve our attention. And we should avoid the kneejerk reaction of thinking about poor neighborhoods and schools as inner city problems. This is an issue that really does cross the entire nation.

You know whats far more important?

A community that respects and values education.
Look at India to see less than perfect setting producing impressive results.


You know whats a far bigger problem than anything you mentioned?

The behavior of students in the inner city schools you mention, and the inability of the schools to discipline the students, and the parents not giving a sh@t.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Who's gonna be a teacher for dog shit money.
I have no idea what point you're trying to get across.

It can be just some guy or girl looking to supplement their income. A college student looking for some extra mullah. Education does not have to be 8-3pm, 50 minutes per topic, rinse and repeat.

May be a little off topic, but once you can add and subtract, how much time must you spend doing it? Once you learn to read, how much more focus on it do you need? And does the current format of 8-3pm, 50 min/topic really doing what is needed, or is it mostly just filler?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

It can be just some guy or girl looking to supplement their income. A college student looking for some extra mullah. Education does not have to be 8-3pm, 50 minutes per topic, rinse and repeat.

May be a little off topic, but once you can add and subtract, how much time must you spend doing it? Once you learn to read, how much more focus on it do you need? And does the current format of 8-3pm, 50 min/topic really doing what is needed, or is it mostly just filler?

This is some of the dumbest bullsht I've read on here.

Let's leave the education of our children to some college students who wanna make some side money.

Sounds like a far better system than what we have currently.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

This is some of the dumbest bullsht I've read on here.

Let's leave the education of our children to some college students who wanna make some side money.

Sounds like a far better system than what we have currently.

I have not been in school for a bit. But you and I are from the same area. I went to one of the best publics in Bergen County. These teachers, are basically just college kids when they started out too.

None of my teachers were tops in their field. Most teachers are not. In fact, they probably are far behind in the field after they have been teaching for a few years. And trust me, they dont do good jobs of explaining, answering questions, and just conveying pertinent info.

 

[japanese steel]

yea, cool deflection, bro.


Finland obv has more $ than America to do such grande things.....


what a silly notion. the $ is obviously there. its just what are your priorities?? look at the budget, its not education. edcuation is a $ making racket in America.

Everything in this country is a $ making racket. Education, health care, college, etc.
Free market FTW I guess

 

[Islam Imamate]

I have not been in school for a bit. But you and I are from the same area. I went to one of the best publics in Bergen County. These teachers, are basically just college kids when they started out too.

None of my teachers were tops in their field. Most teachers are not. In fact, they probably are far behind in the field after they have been teaching for a few years. And trust me, they dont do good jobs of explaining, answering questions, and just conveying pertinent info.

I had some good public school teachers, like an English teacher who had a PhD in English, but those are the exception and not the rule. All the girls who went into teaching from my class were of average intelligence but above average in beauty.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I have not been in school for a bit. But you and I are from the same area. I went to one of the best publics in Bergen County. These teachers, are basically just college kids when they started out too.

None of my teachers were tops in their field. Most teachers are not. In fact, they probably are far behind in the field after they have been teaching for a few years. And trust me, they dont do good jobs of explaining, answering questions, and just conveying pertinent info.

Your idea isn't thought out wel at all.

Teachers should be a career path not part time work for people who need a quick buck.

I don't think anyone would take part in what you state earlier.


Our system needs some tweaks but what you're suggesting is something that no one would back.

 

[japanese steel]

It pretty obvious to me that it is in the best interest of this "country" to not have a well educated populace.

Low IQ is big business for corporations and that is the only thing that matters in this country, corporations and their profits. Fuck the people.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

They should kick more students out.

Here is a list of some things I would change or make mandatory if I ran a school.

1. Higher standards regarding behavior. Students who cannot behave properly are not allowed in a regular classroom until they can meet the behavior standards.

2. Higher expectations on students taking responsibility for their own learning and behavior.

3. Higher expectations on parents when it comes to involvement in their child's education.

4. Back to basics. Heavy emphasis placed on reading, writing and mathematics basics. Students who fail to meet the requirements do not pass to the next grade until they do.

5. Less technology (computers, ipads and smartphones) in the classroom. Students need to learn to think critically before they start using technology.

6. Uniforms

7. Make it easier to fire incompetent teachers.

 

[lifelessheap]

Change funding-Absolutely. Increase funding-No. The US spends more $ per student than any country in the world by some distance.

Much much smaller school boards. Fewer superintendents and AS's, less management. The money needs to be with the teachers and the schools. Stop consolidating vendors. Stop this consortium buying bullshit. That is how collusion, corruption, and cronyism take root. Let principals sort out their own goods and services. Schools could send a clerk to Walmart and probably pay 40% less than what they are paying for just about anything. Plus you could then have half as many people employed at the boards. School boards should have a skeleton crew of brains for renovating and building new schools as needed.

Then you remove union concessions protecting teachers from accountability for poor performance. It is harder to fire a teacher than just about any other person in the country. Only 1 in 1000 teachers are fired for performance related reasons annually. Principals used to be fucking Gods. Now they are puppets. They need to become Gods again.

After that, you just remove all geographical boundaries. Lets the students go wherever they want and the money follows the student. Period, end of discussion. Bad models close and are reorganized. Good models grow.

The good part about this plan, Everywhere, EVERYWHERE is has been implemented, it has worked. Everywhere in the US, everywhere in the world.

The amount of non teachers employed by some schools is simply staggering. There is so much bloate

Everything in this country is a $ making racket. Education, health care, college, etc.
Free market FTW I guess

What is free market about our healthcare system or University system? Both are heavily subsidized and regulated by the government. Neither are an example of the free market.

derp

 

[Trotsky]

People should really research their schools before they attend. I mean, the pass rate could be attributed to low intelligence if are dumb enough to get conned into one of those schools.

*EDIT: Can't they start their own practice?

Yeah, they can. That is, if they can get past the bar. And you're right about it being predatory on people who are just not very intelligent and either cannot realize it or are in denial about it. I'm sure there is a small sliver of folks who have learning disadvantages like severe dyslexia that are capable but just underachieve on the LSAT, which is pretty rigid as far as accommodations go, but that's certainly not the standard.

Anyways, being a solo practitioner and making a living as such can be very difficult. You generally will either need huge expenditures on advertising, huge expenditures on firm location, referrals, or a very particular market like an under-served small town (or, most likely, a combination thereof).

As someone who tortured myself taking out $90,000 to go to a better school than ones who were offering full-tuition, it just blows my mind that anyone could take out that kind of loan without close scrutiny.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Your idea isn't thought out wel at all.

Teachers should be a career path not part time work for people who need a quick buck.

I don't think anyone would take part in what you state earlier.


Our system needs some tweaks but what you're suggesting is something that no one would back.

Why career? It can be anyone. If you can get someone to pass the aptitude tests, then what does it matter what your certifications are?

The teachers we have currently are not some highly trained specialists. They too are just in it for the money and the perks.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Did you not read the OP? The schools themselves are over 40 years old. The amount of money available to renovations is proportional to the amount of money in the local municipality that funds the school district. So a cash strapped school district will have less money for facility improvements or constructing new facilities.

I don't know why you're in this thread if you're not going to respond to the actual links in the OP. If you're criticizing the studies or the data at least reference which parts you're criticizing and what alternative studies/data you're referencing in your criticism.

How much do kids really need in order to learn? There are kids in the world who go to school in shacks and use pencils, papers and a few textbooks and many of them are better educated than the schools getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding.

You do not need much more than pencils, paper, textbooks, a caring teacher, effort and a will to learn in order to receive a good educated.

 

[japanese steel]

What is free market about our healthcare system or University system? Both are heavily subsidized and regulated by the government. Neither are an example of the free market.

derp

It was a joke dude. Still doesn't change the fact that they are all $ making schemes. It's just big daddy gov. and their overlords, Corporate America, tag-teaming the American people on the daily.

This entire country is fucking sham.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Why career? It can be anyone. If you can get someone to pass the aptitude tests, then what does it matter what your certifications are?

The teachers we have currently are not some highly trained specialists. They too are just in it for the money and the perks.

Why not a career?

There was a time teaching was upheld as a noble and an important profession.

The republicans destroyed their unions and somehow sold the public these people are the takers. When in fact their jobs are extremely important.

Do you think it's a coincidence that unionized states almost always out perform non unionized states.

Take a look at Wisconsin and how Scott walker destroyed their education system for further proof

 

[CableandThanos]

Yet...



Public schools have become a pet interest of mine since I had a kid. I'm frequently surprised by the general failings of our system to properly educate the poorest among us. The quality of teachers, facilities, etc. are all directly proportional to the wealth of the surrounding neighborhoods.

Now, I live in a solid neighborhood with parents who send their kids to $30k preschools (which is insane to me) and $40k elementary schools. But I'm a product of public schools and think we need to take them more seriously.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...under-investment-in-nations-school-buildings/
http://www.oecd.org/edu/innovation-education/disparitiesinspendingonuspublicschoolfacilities.htm

Then why the fuck haven't democrat mayors, city councils, etc done this ?

They have the power to change it yet it never seems to change?

Why?

 

[CableandThanos]

In Finland it is illegal to charge tuition for education. there are almost no private schools.


the result?? Rich kids have to go to public schools. Those rich kids parents are now very invested in having those public schools be top notch.


Suddenly Finland is at the top of the public education ladder..... shocking....

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...gnoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

LOL, Have those Finnish mom and dads have their kids go to school with some of the gang bangers we got here and see how wonderful they do.

 

[CableandThanos]

yea, cool deflection, bro.


Finland obv has more $ than America to do such grande things.....


what a silly notion. the $ is obviously there. its just what are your priorities?? look at the budget, its not education. edcuation is a $ making racket in America.

I guess you missed all the charts posted that said there is little difference in money going to poor schools versus rich. The guy posted them in this thread.

 

[CableandThanos]

Why career? It can be anyone. If you can get someone to pass the aptitude tests, then what does it matter what your certifications are?

The teachers we have currently are not some highly trained specialists. They too are just in it for the money and the perks.

Lets be honest, most teachers now a days are your females that made B's and maybe c's in high school. Our best and brightest are not going into teaching. So we get run of the mill, average high school students growing up to teach outr children.