Official Women's Division Discussion #26

[Nintendomark]

Amanda is too good, too skilled, too strong. She is without a doubt the GOAT and everything going forward from here on out is just icing on the cake for her. Not sure what is next for her. If Cyborg beats Felicia and can iron out her contract issues, maybe you do that fight out of respect for her legacy at 145.

Claudia/Randa was a tepid, measured affair. I guess Claudia did enough to stop her losing streak. Would have liked to see the fight hit the ground, as both fighters are more entertaining there.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

Amanda Nunes is the GOAT and its not even close. This includes Cyborg(For the crazy Cyborg fans), Ronda(For the Ronda fans) and Megumi( For the JWMMA fans). Amanda is not my favorite fighter but if people are still not calling her without a doubt the absolute best WMMA fighter ever you are just bias. No matter how boring Valentina vs Nunes was, those fights shows me just how good Valentina is. To be that undersized and be the only one to put up a decent fight vs this new Amanda is simply amazing.

I'll preface this by saying that Nunes is by far my favorite WMMA fighter ever, and the fact that she won me a small fortune against Cyborg and a nice profit tonight at -5.5 points against Holm at -185/-170 doesn't hurt.

That being said, don't people get tired of this stupid "WMMA GOAT" bullshit?

WMMA is far too new to have this discussion, nevermind that the fighters under discussion are currently active and things can change drastically.

The UFC called Ronda Rousey the women's GOAT until late 2015.

Then, the UFC called Joanna J. the women's GOAT until late 2017.

Then, the UFC called Cris Cyborg the women's GOAT until late 2018.

Gee, this "women's GOAT" changes hands more often than the consensus pound-for-pound best, doesn't it?

I understand the UFC using this as a marketing ploy. But don't be the stupid rube who falls for it.

 

[leto1776]

I just did a quick live vid for my channel, repeat it here:
Panda vs Kianzad was good, Panda just did it better. I agreed with the decision. Panda just wanted it more, and was prepared vs Kianzad came in,late.

Gadelha learned how to preserve her fuel reserves, but it makes for a boring fighter. Randa just did a Randa, could bring it.

I made a video a few weeks back, stating that there are no GOATs in (w)mma, but if someone were to say that Nunes is the GOAT, and presents it with sound arguments, I won’t argue with them.

 

[aerius]

Just think about how aspen Ladd is one win away from facing nunes...that’s scary.

If you look at the 135 pound division, it’s not even that you can’t find someone who could beat her, but it’s hard to find someone who even seems as if they could go 5 rounds with her.

Pennington and Shevchenko are the only ones who made it out of the 1st round against ATT Nunes, and Valentina was the only one to see the bell.

And in retrospect, Valentina's fights with Nunes really tell quite a tale of her status too. They age like wine, really, the more Nunes murders other girls

I think Pennington needs some love too, even though she got her leg chopped out early and was never really in the fight, she still had a few good moments and made it into the championship rounds. Unfortunately her corner failed her and sent her out to take career changing damage in round 5.

 

[leto1776]

Pennington and Shevchenko are the only ones who made it out of the 1st round against ATT Nunes, and Valentina was the only one to see the bell.



I think Pennington needs some love too, even though she got her leg chopped out early and was never really in the fight, she still had a few good moments and made it into the championship rounds. Unfortunately her corner failed her and sent her out to take career changing damage in round 5.

Everyone shat on Pennington, but she lasted longer than Holm, Tate, Cyborg, did better than so many others.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Pennington and Shevchenko are the only ones who made it out of the 1st round against ATT Nunes, and Valentina was the only one to see the bell.



I think Pennington needs some love too, even though she got her leg chopped out early and was never really in the fight, she still had a few good moments and made it into the championship rounds. Unfortunately her corner failed her and sent her out to take career changing damage in round 5.

Pennington's corner should have thrown in the towel when she said she was done. She knew and it was obvious. Nobody can seriously tell me it was a good idea to continue. You do see a rare upset sometimes as a result but most girls aren't KO artists or have the physical ability to throw seemingly random shit at the wall like Rose used to. They are just going to shit the bed even worse and carry that into the next fight or three.

 

[leto1776]

Pennington's corner should have thrown in the towel when she said she was done. She knew and it was obvious. Nobody can seriously tell me it was a good idea to continue. You do see a rare upset sometimes as a result but most girls aren't KO artists or have the physical ability to throw seemingly random shit at the wall like Rose used to. They are just going to shit the bed even worse and carry that into the next fight or three.

Yeah, I agree. Her corner, Tecia, and Rocky herself didn’t want to quit, but sometimes, the corner needs to save a fighter from herself.

Listening to the post fight press conference, Nunes is so damn humble. Even after her fight, she said she wanted to thank her coaches, and she thanked Conan, the other guy, and Nina. She talks a lot leading up to the fight, to try to sell it, but I feel she gets a lot of undeserved hate because of that. Honestly, I was worried myself because of her attitude leading up to the fight, but damn, she’s like the wmma version of WWE’s Becky Lynch. She’s “the man.”

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Yeah, I agree. Her corner, Tecia, and Rocky herself didn’t want to quit, but sometimes, the corner needs to save a fighter from herself.

Listening to the post fight press conference, Nunes is so damn humble. Even after her fight, she said she wanted to thank her coaches, and she thanked Conan, the other guy, and Nina. She talks a lot leading up to the fight, to try to sell it, but I feel she gets a lot of undeserved hate because of that. Honestly, I was worried myself because of her attitude leading up to the fight, but damn, she’s like the wmma version of WWE’s Becky Lynch. She’s “the man.”

A lot of fighters try that. Some are better at it than others. Some are better at certain aspects of it. Also everyone has their own feelings about what they like or don't like about all of it. Florida Street Jesus vs Greek Statue was a good example of that last night.

Will be interesting to see what we get out of Joanna in this respect if she faces Waterson or even Claudia. Do we get a happy anti-depressant Joanna like she is 99.99% of the time or do we get a "I'm not locked in the cage with you, you're locked in the cage with me" Joanna. Probably both cause she is both.

Speaking of Claudia I can't see the UFC granting her that fight with JJ after that performance. As much as I would enjoy watching Joanna dismantle Claudia and likely stopping her in a one sided beatdown ala Carla or Penne there is no way in hell can they headline a Fight Night with her. Might be a fun Co-Main for a Fight Night but it would have zero title implications so there's zero chance JJ would agree to it even if offered. Just a waste of her time.

Then again at this point I wouldn't put anything past the UFC.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Nunes has now beaten every 135 and 145 pound champion the UFC has ever had. If she could somehow trick Nicco into getting into the cage with her...it could then be said that she has beaten every 125, 135, and 145 pound champion the UFC has ever had. And, we are not talking about some fringe promotion in Japan, Korea, Brazil, etc....and it's not 2009...and it's not like Nunes is just outpointing her opponents. The UFC has assembled the top talent in these divisions, and Amanda has beaten them all, convincingly. This is much different than the cases with JJ, Rousey and even Cyborg; so I think calling Nunes the GOAT is perfectly justified. I think she just needs 20 wins, as that is kind of a rare achievement in WMMA, but she'll get there. Just imagine what the next GOAT candidate will have to do to eclipse Nunes's accomplishments and resume.

Jarl

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

This is much different than the cases with JJ, Rousey and even Cyborg; so I think calling Nunes the GOAT is perfectly justified.

This is what is known as hindsight bias.

It was "perfectly justified" to call Rousey the GOAT before late 2015, when she was 12-0 and destroying all challengers in the first few seconds of round 1. It was "perfectly justified" to call JJ the GOAT before late 2017, when she was a perfect 14-0, had beaten a slew of great fighters, and defended the title 5 times. It was "perfectly justified" to call Cyborg the GOAT before late 2018, when she was 20-1 and a perfect 20-0 for 13 freaking years.

While I do think Nunes' skills are better, and I like her WAY more as a fighter and person than Rousey/JJ/Cyborg, unlike those three, her record isn't perfect. She has lost 4 times, all decisively, and went to a 50/50 decision against a smaller opponent, Valentina, as recently as three fights ago.

Again, WMMA is way too new to be having this discussion, and discussing GOATs for presently active fighters is dumb.

What if Aspen Ladd moves to a real camp, learns striking, and then beats Nunes 1-2 years from now by out-wrestling her? And/or what if Valentina Shevchenko goes on a crazy winning streak, defending her title 10+ times? Is Nunes still the GOAT?

Are those scenarios unlikely? I would argue they're more likely than Holm beating Rousey or Rose beating JJ at the time.

 

[thatdude21601]

Ready for a lady super hulk tournament with Nunes, Gabi, Harrison, some Bellator flyweight, etc.

 

[GBJohn]

‘GoaT’ is such a subjective term. Even in a sport like MMA, where competitors go head to head, it’s hard to say definitively who is ‘greater’. Even defining ‘great’ varies from observer to observer. Given that this thread is dedicated to WMMA discussion, I think it’s perfectly valid to discuss who might be the ‘GoaT’, knowing that there cannot be an undisputed answer.

 

[Kaybee]

she’s like the wmma version of WWE’s Becky Lynch. She’s “the man.”

TheManda Nunes IMO

 

[Xuh]

Randa: 'I went in with a clear mind and great game plan. Knowing what I know now, I want a rematch.'




Yea I don't see the matchmakers rushing to book that one again.

I'm also curious what this 'great game plan' was coz it surely wasn't what we were watching... was it?

 

[msm1981]

On the subject of Randa Markos I think if she gets cut tomorrow morning her career maybe
over since it is very unlikely that Shannon Knapp at Invicta will offer her a contract do to her
not having a valid reason for struggling especially considering she was one of the TUF girls
from 2014.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

On the subject of Randa Markos I think if she gets cut tomorrow morning her career maybe
over since it is very unlikely that Shannon Knapp at Invicta will offer her a contract do to her
not having a valid reason for struggling especially considering she was one of the TUF girls
from 2014.

It's not like Invicta has depth Kailin Curran just fought for their title, with a good performance she's easily the new champion there. Also she'd have that ufc veteran title so any other organization should be happy to sign her with that.

 

[Dsfdandan]

It's not like Invicta has depth Kailin Curran just fought for their title, with a good performance she's easily the new champion there. Also she'd have that ufc veteran title so any other organization should be happy to sign her with that.

Yeah, invicta isn’t exactly picky....
Randa shouldn’t be cut anyway, divisions need gatekeepers.

 

[dim_]

I made a video a few weeks back, stating that there are no GOATs in (w)mma, but if someone were to say that Nunes is the GOAT, and presents it with sound arguments, I won’t argue with them.

well the logical argument is that Ronda and Cyborg are two of the very best female fighters there have ever bean.

And Amanda beat both of them quickly, easily, and convincingly.

Granted, it was towards the tale end of their careers, but she cannae help what year she was born.

There is nobody, certainly not in the last ten years with a better claim.

 

[aerius]

Watched the Holm vs. Nunes fight a couple more times today. It's kinda funny, Holm should've been doing to Nunes what Nunes was doing to her. Right off the start, Amanda started going to the body kicks and adding in some low kicks to try & take away Holly's movement, but she always went back to the body kicks. She then added in her punches, clinch knees, and a takedown. Amanda's gas tank is often questioned even though she's gone 5 rounds, but if you're going to test her cardio, banging the body and using clinch exchanges would be a great way to do it.

Problem was Holly was scared & running for her life after Nunes bombed her with an overhand right a minute into the fight. Up to then Holly was taking the centre of the cage and making Amanda move around the outside to find her openings. After that right hand landed, Nunes controlled the centre of the cage for the rest of the fight and had Holly on the run and scared to commit. The punch didn't land clean but I think Holly felt the power and had an "oh shit" moment.

Also, Nunes is learning from Shevchenko and adding in some tricks of her own. She's now using hand traps to clear the path for her right hand, she threw a lead hook at Holly's arms to yank away her guard and hit her with a right hand which is the same thing that Valentina did to both Holly and Nunes. And the most worrying part for anyone in her divisions is that Nunes has now figured out reads and setups. She picked up on how Holly was leaving her front leg hanging in the air after bailing on kicks, then feinted her into leaving her leg hanging just before blasting her with the head kick. IMO this is the mark of a true elite level striker; recognize the opponent's habits or patterns, figure out how to draw out a specific reaction from him/her when you want it, then close the trap on them and make them pay.

I hope Amanda keeps fighting for a few more years, she continues to improve and I want to see her dominate her divisions and set the bar at a new high.

 

[Askafan]

I know the UFC drop folk for negative fights and I haven't watched Gadelha v Markos but was Randa really that bad? Let's not forget she recently picked up a $50k bonus, has an interesting backstory and an attractive decolletage.

Anyway, noticed that starting this weekend there are 16 female fights in the UFC in just 5 weeks. That's as many as in the whole of 2013. I get the impression that after a succession of exciting title scraps the middle ground are beginning to see women's fights as a normal part of the game. Certainly the three upcoming bouts in Sacramento look promising.