Nog vs Sergei 18 years ago

[Jewish Lightning]

Excuse but that's not a very explosive double leg, and Sergei showed flaws on his TDD which are even more evident in Nog's second succesful TD.

A lot of HWs lack of what you say, but we are talking about Nog who was the #2 HW at the time, so compare him with his modern counterpart. I think it's harder to get deep in a double leg vs Gané due to his movement and size. If you think that jab to double leg is a move not attainable by modern athletes, or that Gane would be helpess against that, you are delusional.
Im failrly confident such attempt vs Ngannou would not look so explosive nor would it be effective.

Not sure why you think its rare to see guys today able to control distances and sprawl. I'd actually say that's the aspect of the game that has improved the most due to UFC's interest on promoting standup fighting.

Prime Big Nog took down everyone he ever fought. This includes Fedor and Barnett who were much better grapplers than Gane in every way and much stronger in the clinch and in the hips and I love Gane but he's a French kick boxer who trains wrestling/ grappling in Paris and was out grappled by Ngannou lol. Prime Big Nog would have taken him down.

 

[mjfan23]

It's a good fight, but TBH the stand up looks pretty slow, not a whole lot of switching stances or faints or leg kicks like you see today.

Lol at leg kicks

 

[pankrat]

Prime Big Nog took down everyone he ever fought. This includes Fedor and Barnett who were much better grapplers than Gane in every way and much stronger in the clinch and in the hips and I love Gane but he's a French kick boxer who trains wrestling/ grappling in Paris and was out grappled by Ngannou lol. Prime Big Nog would have taken him down.

I dont recall if he took down Sapp, a lesser grappler than Nganou/Gane, following your uber simpleton logics.

Nogueira would have a very hard time safely getting close enough to even attempt a TD.

 

[pankrat]

Prime Big Nog took down everyone he fought including Prime Fedor and prime juiced up Barnett who were much better/stronger grapplers than Gane, a French kick boxer. You seem like a UFC fan boy with bizarre delusions.

"A French kickboxer"...as if you imply something with such label. Textbook nerdy noob, Im telling you

 

[cmw43]

Sergei's Olympic boxing credit is sort of bullshit. He just represented a country with barely an Olympic team. If he made it to the Olympics. The boxing team would be just him and a light flyweight. I don't even think the country even had a boxing team for the previous Olympics.

You need to look into it a bit more.

He nearly made the Russian Team but got injured mid fight in the semi final qualifier.

He took medals at the 2003 Central Asian Games and 2004 Asian boxing Champions where he lost in the finals to the Heavyweight who went on to take Bronze at the Olympics. He didn't just walk on to the team and do nothing.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Great fight and one of the more diverse technical displays you will see between HWs. It was close, there was a decent argument for Sergei winning.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Excuse but that's not a very explosive double leg, and Sergei showed flaws on his TDD which are even more evident in Nog's second succesful TD.

A lot of HWs lack of what you say, but we are talking about Nog who was the #2 HW at the time, so compare him with his modern counterpart. I think it's harder to get deep in a double leg vs Gané due to his movement and size. If you think that jab to double leg is a move not attainable by modern athletes, or that Gane would be helpess against that, you are delusional.
Im failrly confident such attempt vs Ngannou would not look so explosive nor would it be effective.

Not sure why you think its rare to see guys today able to control distances and sprawl. I'd actually say that's the aspect of the game that has improved the most due to UFC's interest on promoting standup fighting.

Stipe and Bladyes got Ngannou down with double legs didnt they?

I think theres a repeated feature of modern hype that if we see less of a tactic in modern MMA its a sign that the sport has evolved beyond it but very often its diminished skill in one area and a shift in the way fighters approach the sport.

I mean Nog at his peak was definitely an agile fighter for a HW(and I do think so double legs are quite fast for a HW) with exellent cardio to the degree he could throw out repeated double leg shots and he had the sub game that he could both afford to end up on his own back and could punish fighters trying to escape the ground with him, quite a high percentage of his big sub wins come from counters to escape atempts.

A lot of modern fighters really I think the double leg shot has become less popular because its viewed as an ineffective use of energy, fighters these days tend to use "just stand up" tactics more often so the energy to get someone down simply isnt worth it. Again though I think you see that when you have high quality sub grappling this kind of escape becomes much harder, the way people like Khabib punish this.

Really I don't think Gane is very tested in terms of defencive wrestling before Ngannou and that performance really wasnt that impressive IMHO.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

"A French kickboxer"...as if you imply something with such label. Textbook nerdy noob, Im telling you

Lol you're a garbage poster and a mongoloid. Big Nog took down everyone he fought including Prime Fedor and Barnett who were much better and stronger grapplers than Gane- a French kick boxer who has been training 4 years.

Using Sapp as an example to explain why Nog wouldnt be able to take down Gane just exposes you as a mongoloid who has never trained. Sapp was a 385lb steroid freak who was 10x stronger than Gane and Ngannou so Nog had to shoot in on him and adjust to his sprawl with a sit out technique which allowed him to transition to top control on Sapp which is the same as taking him down.

And you're calling me a nerd and a noob? Lol
Red belt poster smh.

 

[pankrat]

Lol you're a garbage ass poster and a mongoloid. Big Nog took down everyone he fought including Prime Fedor and Barnett who were much better and stronger grapplers than Gane- a French kick boxer who has been training 4 years.

Using Sapp as an example to explain why Nog wouldnt be able to take down Gane just makes exposes you as a mongoloid who has never trained. Sapp was a 385lb steroid freak who was 10x stronger than Gane and Ngannou so Nog had to shoot in on him and adjust to his sprawl with a sit out technique which allowed him to transition to top control which is the same as taking him down.

And you're calling me a nerd and noob? Lol Ive been training BJJ and kick boxing since 2007 and would roll you up and stuff you inside of a Mayonaise jar, clown. Red belt poster smh.

Go bed, niño

 

[pankrat]

Stipe and Bladyes got Ngannou down with double legs didnt they?

I think theres a repeated feature of modern hype that if we see less of a tactic in modern MMA its a sign that the sport has evolved beyond it but very often its diminished skill in one area and a shift in the way fighters approach the sport.

I mean Nog at his peak was definitely an agile fighter for a HW with exellent cardio to the degree he could throw out repeated double leg shots and he had the sub game that he could both afford to end up on his own back and could punish fighters trying to escape the ground with him, quite a high percentage of his big sub wins come from counters to escape atempts.

A lot of modern fighters really I think the double leg shot has become less popular because its viewed as an ineffective use of energy, fighters these days tend to use "just stand up" tactics more often so the energy to get someone down simply isnt worth it. Again though I think you see that when you have high quality sub grappling this kind of escape becomes much harder, the way people like Khabib punish this.

Nog at his peak was certainly an agile HW. He was a also 225lbs man. Plenty of LHWs weigh just as much in fight night, and you can see them displaying sharp jabs and wrestling moves yet they dont feel so confident about making them effective vs a guy as Ngannou.
It seems you dont fully understand how much physicality inffluence fighting at the highest level.

I dont recall Blaydes taking Francis down, honestly, even though I would predict Blaydes to take down most HWs from Pride era

Miocic did, 4 years ago. What about the most recent bout. Or you dont acknoedlege any improment on Ngannou? That's you issue.
Wanderlei - who is obviously no the wrestler nor the physical specimen Miocic is - took down Mirko repeteadly in their first fight too, you know.
A great example by the way, of why out-of-MMA credentials dont necesarily translate to MMA. Mirko's striking looked very pedestrian in that fight, being obviously an excellent striker under kickboxing rules with big gloves.

I guess the "just standup tactic" is your way to disminish the overall grappling ability in today's landscape.
It's true that fighters today tend to work on tactis to get back to their feet as soon as possible because, as I said, UFC favours standup fighting, and at the end of the day these guys are prize fighters who want to be promoted, so their training is geared towards it, generally speaking. They aren't clueless though, there is a high level team and lot of work behind what you cal "just standup tactic" in most cases.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Nog at his peak was certainly an agile HW. He was a also 225lbs man. Plenty of LHWs weigh just as much in fight night, and you can see them displaying sharp jabs and wrestling moves yet they dont feel so confident about making them effective vs a guy as Ngannou.
It seems you dont fully understand how much physicality inffluence fighting at the highest level.

I dont recall Blaydes taking Francis down, honestly, even though I would predict Blaydes to take down most HWs from Pride era

Miocic did, 4 years ago. Wanderlei - who is obviously no the wrestler nor the physical specimen Miocic is - took down Mirko repeteadly in their first fight too, you know. A great example by the way, of why out of MMA credentials dont necesarily translate to MMA. Mirko's striking looked very pedestrian in that fight, being obviously an excellent striker under kickboxing rules with big gloves.

I guess the "just standup tactic" is your way to disminish the overall grappling ability in today's landscape.
It's true that fighters today tend to work on tactis to get back to their feet as soon as possible because, as I said, UFC favours standup fighting, and at the end of the day these guys are prize fighters who want to be promoted, so their training is geared towards it, generally speaking. They aren't clueless though, there is a high level team and lot of work behind what you cal "just standup tactic" in most cases.

Mirko at the time of the 1st Wanderlei fight had been training MMA for mere months and even then not full time still focusing more on his K-1 career until mid 2003, these days fighters still get called green 3-4 years into a career so I think its a bit questionable to judge him on that fight. Look at the rematch in 2006 and you see something very different, Wanderlei unable to achieve anything with his grappling beyond getting reversed and beaten up.

I think your posting follows the typical line that because a fighter is highly ranked in the modern day and MMA has "evolved" then that fighter MUST also be well rounded but really I think you see in Gane's performance agains Ngannou he really didnt look that great grappling wise many more years into his career than Mirko in 2002. The reality is that Gane's grappling was barely tested before this fight with Ngannou.

Bladyes/Ngannou 1....

 

[Moosetony]

The stand up in Gane vs Ngannou was really high level

Lool

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Mirko at the time of the 1st Wanderlei fight had been training MMA for mere months and even then not full time still focusing more on his K-1 career until mid 2003, these days fighters still get called green 3-4 years into a career so I think its a bit questionable to judge him on that fight. Look at the rematch in 2006 and you see something very different, Wanderlei unable to achieve anything with his grappling beyond getting reversed and beaten up.

I think your posting follows the typical line that because a fighter is highly ranked in the modern day and MMA has "evolved" then that fighter MUST also be well rounded but really I think you see in Gane's performance agains Ngannou he really didnt look that great grappling wise many more years into his career than Mirko in 2002. The reality is that Gane's grappling was barely tested before this fight with Ngannou.

Bladyes/Ngannou 1....

You're arguing with a guy who said Nog wouldn't be able to take down Gane because he had trouble taking down Sapp.

 

[ryun253]

Can't believe it's been so long already :O. Honestly though just remove USADA and there would be better heavyweight fights.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Can't believe it's been so long already :O. Honestly though just remove USADA and there would be better heavyweight fights.

Steroids don't replace skill and technique. You could give Lewis and Tuivasa all the steroids in the world and they still wouldn't fight like that.

 

[pankrat]

Mirko at the time of the 1st Wanderlei fight had been training MMA for mere months and even then not full time still focusing more on his K-1 career until mid 2003, these days fighters still get called green 3-4 years into a career so I think its a bit questionable to judge him on that fight. Look at the rematch in 2006 and you see something very different, Wanderlei unable to achieve anything with his grappling beyond getting reversed and beaten up.

I think your posting follows the typical line that because a fighter is highly ranked in the modern day and MMA has "evolved" then that fighter MUST also be well rounded but really I think you see in Gane's performance agains Ngannou he really didnt look that great grappling wise many more years into his career than Mirko in 2002. The reality is that Gane's grappling was barely tested before this fight with Ngannou.

Bladyes/Ngannou 1....

I would not expect Wand to give problems to any top HW with his grappling tbh. I do recall a legit sized HW in Cheick Kongo outgrappling Mirko not even a year after that 2006 you referenced, though. Not even by some cage wrestling tactics btw, from the center of the octagon if I recall correctly.

I though we were talking about Ngannou 2022. 4-5 years ago I had much more doubts about him as a fighter. It seems you refuse to acknowledge anything that implies giving credit to moder fighters refining their skills though, that's why you keep going back to half a decade ago.

I do think that double leg from the 260lber Blaydes seems harder to stop than those we see from 225lbs Nogueira btw, dont you agree?

 

[pankrat]

You're arguing with a guy who said Nog wouldn't be able to take down Gane because he had trouble taking down Sapp.

He very well know who he is arguing with, sissy.
Solid contender for #1 p4p shertard in 2022 right here. Keep it up.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I would not expect Wand to give problems to any top HW with his grappling tbh. I do recall a legit sized HW in Cheick Kongo outgrappling Mirko not even a full year after that 2006 you referenced, though. Not even by some cage wrestling tactics btw, from the center of the octagon if I recall correctly.

I though we were talking about Ngannou 2022. 4-5 years ago I had much more doubts about him as a fighter. It seems you refuse to acknowledge anything that implies giving credit to moder fighters refining their skills though, that's why you keep going back to half a decade ago.

I do think that double leg from the very big HW in Blaydes seems way harder to stop than those we see from 225lbs Nogueira btw, dont you agree?

Imagine I started to bring up Ngannou losing to Zoumana Cisse as a serious arguement? you'd call me out saying it was far too early in in MMA career to judge him yet Mirko against Wand the first time was 9-10 months into a part time MMA career, before fighting Fujita the first time he literally was almost totally green, that fight was sposed to be feeding a kickboxer to a MMA guy cold as we saw a few other times in that era.

Its not that I'm not giving any credit to any modern fighters, its that I'm questioning your posting which is I think as often excessive dismissing of the talents of older fighters and buying into UFC evolution hype much too strongly.

Again really your talking up the anti grappling of someone like Gane based on IMHO very little actual evidence, it just seems to be "Gane is a highly ranked modern MMA fighter and modern MMA has evolved thus Gane MUST have a strong anti grappling game", which quality grapplers has Gane beaten to show this? when has he shown great anti grappling? the one time his grapplign was seriously tested by Francis honestly I felt it looked pretty lacking.

Really as well I think the example in this thread shows you WHY this is such an issue, watch Nog/Sergei and tell me thats not a very entertaining match with very enjoyable technique? I fucking hate this modern hype that claims that somehow the more the sport "evolves" the worse it looks technically, as if Derrick Lewis would be dancing around Sergei like Ali but its only his modern evolved opponents who make him look like a brawler. Its just dishonest nonsense IMHO that wouldnt be accepted in any other sport and tis quality sport I want not huffing Dana Whites farts.

 

[pankrat]

Sissy? Where you train at?

<45>

Solid contender, this sis

 

[fightfan70]

just goes to show

pride heavy weight fights from 20 years ago > current ufc heavy weight fights.