International [NATO News] Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would "put NATO at war with Russia"

[D3THRONED]

Big fan of Russia cutting off power to Finland. Liberal democracy learns a hard lesson that there are consequences for their actions

LOL glad you're open about sucking putler dick. They don't really depend on Russian much dumbass.

 

[SandisLL]

Erdogan still saying he will block nato membership

Our diplomats going in to negotiate (fully expect them to bend over lol)

Doesn't matters.

Humgary, Germany and Austria will cry.

Of course maybe better is to wait till stuff like 1939 or move to Russia ASAP.

 

[D3THRONED]

Turkey will cave. US will just send them some shiny fighter jets and it will be ok.

 

[gluehuffer1776]

LOL glad you're open about sucking putler dick. They don't really depend on Russian much dumbass.

total putler victory incoming.

 

[Yehudim]

Big fan of Russia cutting off power to Finland. Liberal democracy learns a hard lesson that there are consequences for their actions

Absolutely cringe

 

[Arkain2K]

Sweden's Legislature approves historic NATO membership application
By Don Jacobson | May 16, 2022

​

May 16 (UPI) -- Sweden's government has made a historic decision to apply for membership in the NATO western military alliance, Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson announced Monday.

"We will inform NATO that we want to become a member of the alliance," Andersson, leader of Sweden's Social Democratic-led government, said at a press conference in Stockholm while flanked by Moderate Party leader Ulf Kristersson.

The decision followed a debate in Sweden's legislature, the Riksdag, in which lawmakers expressed "broad majority" support for the NATO application after decades of official military neutrality.

"It is the government's assessment that a Swedish NATO membership is the best way to protect Sweden's security in light of the fundamentally changed security policy situation after Russia's invasion of Ukraine," the prime minister added.

The application is to be submitted by the Swedish NATO ambassador. Although the precise timing of move remained unclear, Andersson said her government wants to submit it in tandem with neighboring Finland, which similarly decided on Sunday to seek NATO membership.

With Finland now opting to apply, "Sweden alone would remain outside NATO in a very vulnerable position," Andersson said. "The best thing for Sweden's security and the security of the Swedish people is that we join NATO and that we do it together with Finland."

"This is a historic decision," added Kristersson. "It is not about party politics -- it's taking joint responsibility for the country's security policy interest."

Andersson has acknowledged risks associated with the NATO move, including the possibility of Russian cyberattacks in retaliation.

"There could be the possibility of cyberattacks, hybrid attacks and other measures, but it's all up to them," she told reporters on Sunday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, meanwhile, had a muted official reaction to the moves by Finland and Sweden in contrast to earlier, more threatening comments from Russian officials over the applications.

The Kremlin "has no problems" with Finland and Sweden, he said Monday during a meeting of the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization of Eurasian countries, adding.

"I would like to inform you ... there are no problems with these states, and therefore, in this sense, expansion at the expense of these countries does not pose a direct threat to Russia," Putin said.

But he also warned that "the expansion of military infrastructure into this territory will certainly provoke our response."

The bids by Finland and Sweden to join the western military alliance must be approved unanimously by all members including Turkey, but Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Monday reiterated his opposition to the move.

Just hours after Sweden's announcement, Erdogan told reporters in Ankara he will not allow it to proceed due to what he called the Nordic countries' insufficient policies against terrorism.

"Neither of the countries has a clear stance against terror organizations," he said, calling Sweden a "hatchery" for such groups and suggesting its representatives "not bother" coming to Turkey to discuss their NATO bid.

Erdogan has previously criticized the alleged ties between the Nordic countries and Kurdish organizations, but Lithuanian Defense Minister Arvydas Anusauskas said the differences can be overcome.

"The objections Turkey voiced have nothing to do with the membership of these countries, they have to do with Turkey's wishes it would like to resolve with these countries on a bilateral basis," he told The Baltic Times. "Until the formal admission of Sweden and Finland, I think these things can certainly be discussed and negotiated."

NATO foreign ministers met in Berlin on Sunday to discuss Finland and Sweden's applications in the wake of Russia's assault on Ukraine.

"Their membership in NATO would increase our shared security, demonstrate that NATO's door is open and that aggression does not pay," NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said, reiterating that "all sovereign nations have the right to choose their own path."

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-...es-application-NATO-membership/3571652728750/

 

[deadon]

Turkey will cave. US will just send them some shiny fighter jets and it will be ok.

I dont think this is going to work this time. Lots of countries are pissed at the US. Look at India and listen to their news. They're hitting us hard talking about our failed nation building.

 

[Cole train]

If i put my tinfoil hat on i might even think that this turkey thing was planned with rus if nato membership ends up being blocked since you never know.

 

[Arkain2K]

Wouldn't it be amusing if Erdogan really go ahead and try to block Sweden and Finland from joining, just to see everyone else in the room take out their pens to sign a joint mutual defense treaty with them, similar to the one they just signed with the U.K?

If that happen, I'd like to see a second camera focus on the Turkish ambassador's face throughout the ceremony, as he sits alone in one corner while the rest of NATO are shaking hands and posing for group photos.

Reporting from Ankara, FRANCE 24’s Jasper Mortimer says Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s expressed opposition to Finland and Sweden joining NATO “appears to be opportunistic”. Erdogan accused Finland and Sweden of harbouring “terrorist organisations” and said Turkey did not have a “positive opinion” on the Nordic nations’ NATO membership bid.

 

[Bald1]

Oh yeah? Wanna reroute your demoralized army from Ukraine up to the north to "denazify" Finland and see what happen big guy?
​

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister: "They should have no illusions that we will simply put up with it"
Reuters | May 16, 2022

LONDON, May 16 (Reuters) - Russia said on Monday that the West should have no illusions that Moscow will simply put up with the Nordic expansion of the U.S.-led NATO military alliance to include Sweden and Finland, casting the move as a mistake that would stoke military tension.

Vladimir Putin, Russia's paramount leader since the last day of 1999, has repeatedly cited the post-Soviet enlargement of the NATO alliance eastwards towards Russia's borders as a reason for the invasion of Ukraine.

The war, though, has fomented one of the biggest changes to Europe's security architecture for decades: once unthinkable moves by Sweden and Finland, which shares a 1,300 km (800 mile) border with Russia, to join the military alliance.

"They should have no illusions that we will simply put up with it - and nor should Brussels, Washington and other NATO capitals," Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov was quoted as saying by the state RIA news agency.

Ryabkov, who led talks with the United States on a doomed Russian proposal to halt NATO's eastward expansion, said the decisions by Helsinki and Stockholm to join the alliance were a mistake.

"The general level of military tension will rise, predictability in this sphere will decrease. It is a shame that common sense is being sacrificed to some phantom provision about what should be done in this unfolding situation," Ryabkov said.

Russia has given few clues about what it will do in response to the Nordic enlargement of NATO, saying merely that there would be a "military-technical response".

One of Putin's closest allies said last month that Russia could deploy nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles in the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad if Finland and Sweden joined NATO. read more

The accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO - founded in 1949 to provide European security against the Soviet Union - would be one of the biggest strategic consequences of Russia's invasion of Ukraine to date.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ke-with-far-reaching-consequences-2022-05-16/

Once again -

We are of no threat to you, but if you don't let us dictate your affairs we will keeel you! You have been warned that we're of no threat, unless you govern yourselves as an autonomous nation. We will not put up with you thinking you're free of our control.

Always your friend,
Russia


P.S. Do as we demand or we'll attack you.

 

[mmaknight]

as a canadian - one that sees money pissed away in refugee support, arts, aboriginal payments and other ridiculous spending, this is shameful shit.

As an Indigenous of Treaty Territory I am in support of the continued subsidies that Indigenous People provide to Canada.

 

[Rod1]

I dont think this is going to work this time. Lots of countries are pissed at the US. Look at India and listen to their news. They're hitting us hard talking about our failed nation building.

So? Turkey isn't stupid, what would they do? cause an existential crisis in NATO and risk getting kicked out?

 

[deadon]

So? Turkey isn't stupid, what would they do? cause an existential crisis in NATO and risk getting kicked out?

Do you have to get jumped into this gang as well as out?

 

[Rod1]

Do you have to get jumped into this gang as well as out?

Im thinking more of the Stonecutters of the Simpsons, they will just create another NATO called "No Turkey Military Organization".

 

[Queen B]

 

[GhostZ06]

Doesn't matters.

Humgary, Germany and Austria will cry.

Of course maybe better is to wait till stuff like 1939 or move to Russia ASAP.

its funny consider when europe made nato it was suppose to be UK and France in control. Not the whiny ass Germans. They need to grow a fucking pair of balls

 

[SandisLL]

its funny consider when europe made nato it was suppose to be UK and France in control. Not the whiny ass Germans. They need to grow a fucking pair of balls

Germany in only one single country who really economically had sat on Russia's natural gas needle even more after 2008 th.

Unlike other EU countries: these who even are buying Russia's natural gas....IRL had reduced consumption because prices had went up.
They at least also didn't had build new pipelines to get more Russia's natural gas____
Germany?
Built Nord Stream I. Despite knew that Russia is aggressive and might use natural gas supplies as blackmail tool and it is very popular tactique for Kremlin's politicians...
More than this :
even after 2014 th they built and now almost had finished
Nord Stream II !!! pipeline.

_____
Despite everyone does knows how Russia is using natural gas and crude oil supplies as political pressure tool and also tool to support their puppets countries: if puppet is good puppet, they might offer discounts...

For example: 1994 Lukashenko took power in Belarus.
Kremlin 1994-2009 supplied Belarus with crude oil and natural gas with discounts....
Later, when russia's oil refineries started to cry....they at least rised crude oil price.
_____
Germany also phased out 5 good nuclear reactors and guess how energy they produced had been replaced?
Buy natural gas imports increasing....from Gazprom.
________

 

[PrinceOfPain]

The way you were framing it was basically as if the West had somehow "lost" India while "gaining" Sweden and Finland. India moving away from the West's influence has been going on for the past century, and has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on with Russia right now. Even if Russia was allowed to do as it pleased in Ukraine, the same exact developments would be occurring between India and the West, nothing would be changed. That whole comparison just seems to miss its mark entirely. It would make more sense to say that the West has lost Russia while "gaining" Ukraine.

The only argument that currently exists in favour of Russia is that Western countries have been equally as bad in previous times. But if you believe that the West has been acting immorally, then it means that Russia is acting immorally also. This is not really a good look for them among their allies that believed that Russia was, in some senses, "better" than the West, because they were not outright waging an aggressive war and intervening in other countries' affairs. They're now seeing that Russia is every bit as expansionist and ambitious, just less capable.

So far we have not seen any kind of support from China or any other Russian "ally" comparable to the kind of support Ukraine is getting from the West. So I think what I've said about China, India, Africa, etc. was fair. Nobody has sacrificed their relations with the West in order to take up for Russia. I'm pretty sure that nobody will. In that sense, business will continue as usual. Russia will take a hit, but they have been preparing to take that kind of a hit for a long time. The rest of the world is not going to lose out on money-making opportunities over Ukraine. This situation has little to no meaning for the Chinese or Indian man.

It honestly just sounds like you don't pay attention to the world and that you've let this conflict completely override your logical faculties. India's been accelerating its detachment from the West at least since the West did to Iran what they're currently trying to do to Russia. Prior to that, the was far less active divergence - the separation you're talking about was just a natural consequence of their growing influence and desire for Great Power status.
The West's also been going out of its way for a few years at least (but more like, since Obama) to get India on-side in the effort to build partnerships against China. I mean, the QUAD pretty much only exists because the West has been trying to pull India closer. So, let's not pretend that the West isn't invested in India's alignment.

With its sanctions war against Russia, the Global North (the Western powers) has low-key declared war on the Global South (while making Russia a de facto member of the latter). No offense, but if you think that pushing India into a position where they're becoming more closely aligned with the camp China's in isn't "losing India" then you're just not paying attention. There is already plenty of motivation in both India and China to repair their relations - and there the West goes, giving them even more motivation. Because if nations actually did what the West tried to pressure them into doing (sanctioning Russia) then many of those nations would have collapsed. Asking nations to collapse themselves for its own benefit kinda tells us exactly what the West is; and it's a lot worse than anything the West pretends Russia it.
Both the Indian far right and the Indian far left have latched onto the sanctions war against Russia to drive anti-Western (predominantly anti-American) sentiment in the public.

You're also judging intelligent leaders by the standards set by Western leadership. I mean, come on. America's run by a mental invalid, Germany's run by a weak fool, and Finland's run by a child. These represent some of the worst leaders the West has ever seen.
Why on Earth would either India or China support Russia in anything remotely comparable to the West's "support" for Ukraine?
The West's support for Ukraine is destroying Ukraine. And everyone recognises that the West is at least partially responsible for the crisis in Ukraine that's necessitated that support. And neither India nor China thinks of themselves as having unlimited resources, and neither's deluded themselves into thinking that they're invincible. Those are both problems that West has.

Pumping foreign weapons into a warzone is not only more irresponsible than either India or China have shown themselves to be in recent history, but it's also not as useful as the Western powers like to advertise.
Firstly, most of India's weapons were bought from Russia - asking for them back would make Russia look pretty bad. For China's part, their weapons are not compatible with Russian systems, and they'd require additional training - even if they were being sent, they wouldn't be sent to the frontlines. Secondly, and tying into the first, the Ukrainians have already complained about the quality and reliability of many of the Western weapons sent to them, and the heavier Western weapons that are now being sent require the Ukrainians to be trained. Third, Westerners should start paying attention to the world and the national interests of other nations - if you guys did that, this Ukraine conflict would not have started, and you'd also understand that both China and India have anti-secessionist policies that, on top of their relations with the West, would keep them from open and unfettered support for Russia. Fourth, the West is busily draining its own military stocks so that the Ukrainians can burn through them against the Russians - India can't afford to behave so recklessly, and (unlike the West) China is probably thinking about Taiwan. Finally, Ukraine is desperate for help, Russia is not.
This is a silly comparison and a silly expectation.

If you think that India and China's support for Russia doesn't amount to much then, again, you're deluding yourself. India and China are working at circumventing sanctions to continue trading with Russia - which is a part of the reason that Russia's mostly been able to shrug off the impact of the West's economic war - which is already starting to hurt the West. Meanwhile, the West's support for Ukraine has put Ukraine in ridiculous debt, and hasn't actually done much to stop the annihilation of Ukraine itself - so far, it's just dragging it out, and there are parts of what was Ukraine that have already been plugged into Russia's economy and are never coming back. On top of that, these daffy sanctions have compelled India to take a closer look at Russia and China's "basket of currencies" idea as the basis for a secondary global financial system. The fact that you think that military support for Ukraine is worth more than economic support for Russia, growing interest in drawing away from the Western economic sphere of influence, and the achievement of Russia and China's overall grand strategy, is pretty crazy.
India, Africa, etc already pissed the West off by not condemning Russia. Americans were pulling their goddamn hair out, trying to bully us all into toeing the line.

What's also odd is that you think that Russia and the West are in any way equivalent in terms of the destruction they cause for the rest of the world. There is no real comparison here. Even in their attempt at hurting Russia, all the West's really done is extend the global famine and hardship that's resulted from Russia's attack on Ukraine. Even Japanese outlets have pointed this out. How are the Europeans so backwards that they can't see the blatantly obvious? It's ridiculous that you guys don't realise how much damage you've done to everyone in your attempt at hurting Russia. Or, alternately, that you don't realise that having done that damage to everyone will have medium- to long-term consequences.
And, as I've said before, Western nations - specifically the European ones - don't really have enough of value to absorb many consequences of that scale. Without Russia, they're pretty fucked.

And this daft conflict would never have happened in the first place, if the Western powers didn't think it was a good idea to dick around with and taunt a nuclear power.

The world isn't a Star Wars movie, and "losing India" doesn't mean that India joins some grand anti-Western alliance.
You're sitting around expecting, what? That Africa, India, etc, would declare open war against powerful militaries that most of us are not equipped to take on? Are you even listening to yourself?
The logic that, India, China and Africa must behave with as much petty, selfish stupidity as the West, or they're clearly not sympathetic toward Russia, is a very strange standard to set. It's also nonsense.

"This situation has little to no meaning for the Chinese or Indian man" is again you showing your Western bias - the Chinese and Indian people are far more politically aware and engaged than people of the West (other than a few exceptions like Greece). Again, read Chinese and Indian news outlets - there's a wide range of opinions on the matter. They don't all agree with me by a long shot, but they certainly offer broader perspectives than you're tossing around.

The actual military aspect of this conflict is probably the least important, other than for optics. Western citizens don't entirely seem to have come to understand that yet, and so you guys reduce all strategic considerations to the military situation on the ground - and even the interpretation of that seems to be based almost entirely on Ukrainian propaganda.
Losing India to the Russian/Chinese dream of usurping the dollar is a pretty big deal, and neither Sweden nor Finland offer anywhere near as much influence or importance - not to mention that they're already align with Western interests.
Sweden and Finalnd joining NATO is weak shit - damn near meaningless. And maybe you should all be asking yourselves why such a big deal is being made over such a relative non-event.
That's not really the behaviour of people who believe they're winning.

 

[Rholk]

"Russia is going to steamroll Ukraine in 24 hours"
"3 days and they almost have the capital surrounded"
"the convoy is just waiting for the order to attack "
"The Kiev offensive was obviously a feint, it's all about the east"
"The ship was lost due to a fire and then a storm, its bad luck, these things happen"
"Russia isn't interested in the enitre east, they don't need Kharkiv"

And now we have arrived at what is hopefully the final stage:

The actual military aspect of this conflict is probably the least important

I guess it's one way of coping.

 

[Squarechoke]

I dont think this is going to work this time. Lots of countries are pissed at the US. Look at India and listen to their news. They're hitting us hard talking about our failed nation building.

The US is the biggest single reason NATO is such a powerful alliance so in that regard they are very interested in not being on the US' bad side. The other most powerful nations also want this addition so there will be a lot of pressure on Turkey over this. Most likely we're seeing Erdogan trying to display power to his own country as well as using this chance to try to get something for letting Sweden and Finland in. Things like this have happened before.