My take on why Tom Aspinall has lost a lot of credibility since the Gane fight

[MigitAs]

Unfortunately Bubbles is now cancelled lol

 

[RockyLockridge]

for the hell of it, I decided to google tom aspinall and this is the very first picture lmaooooooo

 

[Superzorro]

for the hell of it, I decided to google tom aspinall and this is the very first picture lmaooooooo


View attachment 1129040

It’s how he looked in the most important fight of his career. But to be fair, that photo actually does him justice, he looked way worse before they cleaned him up. Gane was styling and profiling all over his face.

 

[markg171]

Tom is not a wrestler. Styles make fights. It’s the same reason Conor beat the shit out of so many guys who would kill Nate Diaz but lost to Nate Diaz.

I’ll repeat it again - if Tom sucked, he wouldn’t have cleaned out the division already, finishing everyone relèvent except Gane. And if you’re writing him off for losing a close round he got fouled in that never finished, you’re a shameless fanboy, don’t know fighting or both

Tom beat everybody in the division though because:

• He defended TDs to keep the fights standing against grapplers
• He took fighters down easily when the standing got too competitve/uneffective

It is disengenuous to suddenly turn around saying "Tom isn't a wrestler" when it was a big part of why he was beating everybody else. His wrestling had led to wins and kept him from losses prior. It's a major reason why he was a massive favourite Gane as Tom WAS expected to be able to take him down if he wanted to/needed to.

Tom WAS EXPECTED to be a stylistic nightmare for Gane. Strong enough standing to KO him and the grappling to beat him on the ground easily if not. This was NOT considered some bad stylistic matchup beforehand. This forum was FILLED with people saying Gane had ducked Tom for years because of their grappling disparity and that it was a wash of a fight.

The only reason everybody is suddenly backing off on this is because Gane easily defended Tom's takedown and kept it standing. NOW suddenly the fight isn't a stylistic matchup that everybody's realized this might actually be a standing fight.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Tom beat everybody in the division though because:

• He defended TDs to keep the fights standing against grapplers
• He took fighters down easily when the standing got too competitve/uneffective

Tom had 9 opponents in the UFC before Gane.

Out of all the "grapplers he defended takedowns to keep standing," only Spivac tried to take him down.

Out of all the standing opponents he fought (let's ignore the "competitive/unaffective" bullshit) he took down 3 opponents.

Even if we added your stupidity together, it doesn't even account for half his fights in the UFC

So I guess I'll just leave you with.

It is disengenuous

 

[markg171]

Tom had 9 opponents in the UFC before Gane.

Out of all the "grapplers he defended takedowns to keep standing," only Spivac tried to take him down.

Out of all the standing opponents he fought (let's ignore the "competitive/unaffective" bullshit) he took down 3 opponents.

Even if we added your stupidity together, it doesn't even account for half his fights in the UFC

So I guess I'll just leave you with.

So keeping it standing against Spivac let him KO him, and taking down Volkov and Arlovski let him submit them, instead of potentially losing to them and having 3 losses?

Tom WAS seen as a good grappler in the division until Gane shut his attempt down with ease. NOW you guys are all backtracking from your prior posts like this:

Comparing who they've both been submitted by isn't really any good proof of comparable grappling skills

You know Gane isn't a good wrestler, and you're acting like if his TDD holds up, that makes his grappling skill comparable, which is again wrong.

There IS a reason Aspinall never fought Gane. Know what that reason is? Gane. He's avoided it on multiple occasions when Aspinall was specifically gunning for him

Never miss a chance to beclown yourself dude.

 

[Tweak896]

I think the way everyone jumped on Gane saying he was going to sub or KO him round 1, is pretty telling. If you watch all of Aspinall's fights they were pretty one sided in his favor, 100% dominance. The most back and forth he had is against Arlovski, which wasn't really like the fight with Gane.

Gane uncharacteristically walked Aspinall down instead of his usual point scoring. Still was ahead on the cards in round 1. Which makes you think. Tom is someone who only went to round 2 with Arlovski, and wasn't gassed, but it was a light volume fight. No one knows if Tom can go 5 rounds like he does in round 1, where he relies on explosion and athleticism.

I didn't see Gane eyepoking to avoid something big, it's just hard to picture him doing it purposefully with round 1 almost done and Aspinall's big threat nearly neutralized. He avoided the TD as well. Easier for me to see Tom rather try his chances another day, then fight through it. Actually expect Tom to eyepoke Gane in the rematch purposefully to get him back, which nobody will care.

Aspinall could've had an off night, or whatever too. It's not set in stone Gane is better, but atleast now people are jumping around saying how Gane is an easy win rounds 1-3 by finish. We still haven't seen classic Gane, where he stays back and scores points, think that could be a part we missed in the future rounds.

If Aspinall loses clearly or gets finished, his fanbase will empty. It's wild how many memory-holed the Pavlovich hype train going vacant, like he was the guy to beat Jones.

However, part of me hopes Aspinall beats Gane and Almeida, because the division is nothing but rematches or super fights at that point. Still hard to feel like Aspinall will fix the HW division where there's already talks about going to boxing and how long he's out now. I just want a decent champ that can fight 2x a year.

 

[fendertach]

I think the way everyone jumped on Gane saying he was going to sub or KO him round 1, is pretty telling. If you watch all of Aspinall's fights they were pretty one sided in his favor, 100% dominance. The most back and forth he had is against Arlovski, which wasn't really like the fight with Gane.

Gane uncharacteristically walked Aspinall down instead of his usual point scoring. Still was ahead on the cards in round 1. Which makes you think. Tom is someone who only went to round 2 with Arlovski, and wasn't gassed, but it was a light volume fight. No one knows if Tom can go 5 rounds like he does in round 1, where he relies on explosion and athleticism.

I didn't see Gane eyepoking to avoid something big, it's just hard to picture him doing it purposefully with round 1 almost done and Aspinall's big threat nearly neutralized. He avoided the TD as well. Easier for me to see Tom rather try his chances another day, then fight through it. Actually expect Tom to eyepoke Gane in the rematch purposefully to get him back, which nobody will care.

Aspinall could've had an off night, or whatever too. It's not set in stone Gane is better, but atleast now people are jumping around saying how Gane is an easy win rounds 1-3 by finish. We still haven't seen classic Gane, where he stays back and scores points, think that could be a part we missed in the future rounds.

If Aspinall loses clearly or gets finished, his fanbase will empty. It's wild how many memory-holed the Pavlovich hype train going vacant, like he was the guy to beat Jones.

However, part of me hopes Aspinall beats Gane and Almeida, because the division is nothing but rematches or super fights at that point. Still hard to feel like Aspinall will fix the HW division where there's already talks about going to boxing and how long he's out now. I just want a decent champ that can fight 2x a year.

Tom has no gas. Watch the Gane fight again he checks the clock multiple Times. You only check the clock if you're gassing out or getting your ass kicked.

 

[markg171]

Tom has no gas. Watch the Gane fight again he checks the clock multiple Times. You only check the clock if you're gassing out or getting your ass kicked.

Yeah Cormier literally said during his commentary that he didn't like how big Tom was throwing and that it indicated Tom has no idea how to fight a 25 minute fight having never had to do so before. That it was unsustainable. And this was only like 2.5 minutes into the fight IIRC, not towards the end of the eyepoke.

And Cormier's a former HW and LHW champ who knows what's what in that regard. He's gone 25 minutes multiple times, he knows he pace you need and the signs of someone veering into bad territory. And he saw it in Tom.

The people trying to tell us we didn't all see that Tom was gassing are gaslighting. If you came away from that fight thinking the longer it went on the better it would get for Tom you're lying. The momentum had clearly swung wide in Gane's favour and Tom was going to need something big to change that.

 

[Tweak896]

Tom has no gas. Watch the Gane fight again he checks the clock multiple Times. You only check the clock if you're gassing out or getting your ass kicked.

I'll take your word. I bet Tom is most worried about his own gas. He couldn't take Gane down, his explosiveness is slowing. He's also never had a 1st round like this in the UFC and it's for a belt. I don't think Aspinall has touch of death like Ngannou or Lewis, where they can still land and KO anyone anytime.

The people taking the other side say Tom was just warming up, I never got that feeling. He probably could get a finish later, but it's not as likely.

 

[markg171]

I'll take your word. I bet Tom is most worried about his own gas. He couldn't take Gane down, his explosiveness is slowing. He's also never had a 1st round like this in the UFC and it's for a belt. I don't think Aspinall has touch of death like Ngannou or Lewis, where they can still land and KO anyone anytime.

The people taking the other side say Tom was just warming up, I never got that feeling. He probably could get a finish later, but it's not as likely.

Tom himself said before the fight that his nightmare matchup was someone like Cormier who would pressure him hard, just keep coming, and have that kind of grinding grappling to boot.

Tom knows his gas tank is a weakness. He fights the way he does for a reason. People aren't ready for the conversation that Tom's probably like McGregor. They're incredibly dangerous early, but that fades the longer the fight goes. Under the right circumstances and pace they can fight longer, but they're not going to present the danger they did at the start of the fight.

 

[snaportap21]

If you fought and have been poked, you get it.

If not; you hate Tom. The end.

How do you explain Jiri’s take on the Tom situation, then? Or Waldo’s?

 

[snaportap21]

Tom himself said before the fight that his nightmare matchup was someone like Cormier who would pressure him hard, just keep coming, and have that kind of grinding grappling to boot.

Tom knows his gas tank is a weakness. He fights the way he does for a reason. People aren't ready for the conversation that Tom's probably like McGregor. They're incredibly dangerous early, but that fades the longer the fight goes. Under the right circumstances and pace they can fight longer, but they're not going to present the danger they did at the start of the fight.

I think you’re onto something. Tom’s power comes from very exaggerated leaps into his cross similar to Conor. He has to explode a ton and put his whole body into it. You don’t really see insane power from him in extended exchanges. That leap takes energy, especially for someone his size. He probably has 3rds of serious power max. Maybe 2, just like Conor. Great call.

 

[Tweak896]

Tom himself said before the fight that his nightmare matchup was someone like Cormier who would pressure him hard, just keep coming, and have that kind of grinding grappling to boot.

Tom knows his gas tank is a weakness. He fights the way he does for a reason. People aren't ready for the conversation that Tom's probably like McGregor. They're incredibly dangerous early, but that fades the longer the fight goes. Under the right circumstances and pace they can fight longer, but they're not going to present the danger they did at the start of the fight.

That's probably a fair comparison. Conor does his best work 1st round, but still can hang to win the decision. I don't think he'll become a punching bag after the 1st, but most likely his KO's are going to have a lower chance. The issue is at HW you see more guys shut down harder than say a FW, atleast I don't think Tom would be like Carwin in the 2nd round.

I also think DC or a strong wrestler would be his toughest matchup. Too bad Almeida shit the bed and lost a fight he dominated every second of practically, because that would've been fun to see how Aspinall handles that. Of course Jones would be better, but that's just a cursed matchup.

 

[markg171]

How do you explain Jiri’s take on the Tom situation, then? Or Waldo’s?

The doctors are basically ringside because it's so well known and expected that fighters USUALLY try to CONTINUE fighting that they'll lie their way into doing despite being compromised. We have experts on hand to tell if they're bullshitting their ability to CONTINUE. Not reaffirm their injury that's usually apparent to all (or not).

That's the real anomaly here with Tom. We're in unusual territory of having a fighter saying they won't continue despite the doctor clearing them to. Even Herzog was like "Well I guess it's your call Tom" and apparently told Tom's dad it would be a NC. Which was huge no nos as that meant Tom knew he wouldn't lose if he decided he didn't want to continue instead of being unsure if he might receive a NC, TKO loss, or DQ win.

Tired of people pretending like this was an every day situation.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

Tom beat everybody in the division though because:

• He defended TDs to keep the fights standing against grapplers
• He took fighters down easily when the standing got too competitve/uneffective

It is disengenuous to suddenly turn around saying "Tom isn't a wrestler" when it was a big part of why he was beating everybody else. His wrestling had led to wins and kept him from losses prior. It's a major reason why he was a massive favourite Gane as Tom WAS expected to be able to take him down if he wanted to/needed to.

Tom WAS EXPECTED to be a stylistic nightmare for Gane. Strong enough standing to KO him and the grappling to beat him on the ground easily if not. This was NOT considered some bad stylistic matchup beforehand. This forum was FILLED with people saying Gane had ducked Tom for years because of their grappling disparity and that it was a wash of a fight.

The only reason everybody is suddenly backing off on this is because Gane easily defended Tom's takedown and kept it standing. NOW suddenly the fight isn't a stylistic matchup that everybody's realized this might actually be a standing fight.

Tom is not a wrestler though. He literally has no wrestling background. And you can’t fault him for shutting down guys with good game plans. We didn’t see enough from his fight with Gane to conclude anything.

It was one half assed takedown to make Gane second think, for the sake of mixing it up. He didn’t drive deep or hold it and it was literally once.

It takes an insane amount of cope to shit on a guy for finishing 6/10 of the top 10 in his division, most in the first round. The mental gymnastics Tom haters have to do is insane.

 

[HHJ]

The mental gymnastics Tom haters have to do is insane.

They should do some actual gymnastics off the The Great Cliff of Sherdog, into the WASTELAND below

 

[NenadRS]

TS has a lot of false conclusions, especially regarding that Aspinall was looking for a way out. He was looking for a way to take out Gane and to get some rhythm going. He was more dangerous with his attacks, just did not connect yet. Long post not saying much...

There is nothing to combat when you cannot see with one eye and/or have double vision because of a cheater.

I really like that absurd idea of Tom, that when this happens you get to return the cheat move. Like free kick to the balls, or free unprotected eye poke and then continue fighting.

 

[chimpoehurricane]

First of all, I understand that injuries are a real part of the sport. I'm not here to discuss the validity of Aspinall's eye injuries.

I'm here to give my take on why Aspinall has lost some credibility, and also why fans are turning on him.

Fans wanted Aspinall VS Jones. People actually picked Aspinall against Jones in polls. Aspinall had a LOT of backers.
Being the UFC HW Champion means you're the baddest man on the roster regardless of weight-classes.

Obviously negotiations fell through and we didn't end up getting Aspinall VS Jones. Feels like we waited a while for it too. Had our hopes up and down.

Then, we had to settle for Aspinall VS Gane. Gane seems to be the master of showing up in HW Championship fights regardless of his poor performances.

We watched Jones make easy work of Gane... we watched Ngannou beat Gane with busted knees... and most people felt that Volkov beat Gane too.

So here Gane is, fighting the guy who we slated as the MAN to beat Jon Jones... and Gane was bloodying Aspinall up.

Now, we all know that a few minutes of 1 round doesn't determine a fight. Arlovski was getting the better of Fedor for a few minutes before going to sleep.
Hell, winning 2-3 minutes of a round doesn't even guarantee you the round, let alone the fight. You gotta win 5 minutes to win 1 round.

We got 4 minutes 30 seconds in... Gane was definitely winning but it wasn't the end of the round yet, and Aspinall ends up getting double eye-poked.
Even if Aspinall was to continue, with how bad the poke was - Gane was going to be deducted a point... which means the first round would have ended up in a draw.

But of course, Gane was getting the better of Aspinall.
The circumstances made it seem like Aspinall was looking for an out in the fight. Now, no one but Tom will know how bad it was after getting poked... and while I'm not a doctor, I have seen many fighters continue after getting poked in the eye in the same manner. Hell, I believe DC and Stipe did it to each other every fight, hah.

It didn't help that fans had been anticipating Aspinall's fight for a while. But now we had to watch him get bloodied up by a gatekeeper, and now he's not continuing in a fight due to eye poke.

So of course fans are a bit upset. Hell, If I paid thousands of dollars to to attend this fight, and I know people flew in to Abu Dhabi to watch this- man, you have every right to be pissed that the HW Championship fight ended in this manner.

But of course, we can't fault Aspinall... we can hate him for choosing not to continue with double vision against a kickboxer who was bloodying him up even when he had 2 working eyes... but ultimately it is al on Gane for the illegal blow. It didn't look very accidental either. Dude had fingers going into Tom's face. And it seemed like Gane was doing it more than once.


However, I think fans didn't expect the fight to get that far. I think we expected to see Tom bulldoze Gane the way Jones did. And when that didn't happen, we lost a bit of faith.
I mean, we picked THIS guy to beat Jones???

And since the fight, Tom and his dad hasn't really been doing themselves any favors with how they have approached the whole thing.
Again, I'm no doctor - but it doesn't seem like there's any evident damage to the eyes as far as a layman like me can understand. I know they gave some special name to what Aspinall is suffering from... and it may make sense to doctors, but it doesn't make sense to laymen like us.

Like, the Aspinalls posted the doctor's report and there doesn't seem to be something that requires immediate surgery.
But Tom and his Dad make it a point to talk about how Tom can't see yet.

Every news we get, is Tom Aspinall still can't see- and there's no timetable for his return. Now ESPN retorted that Aspniall needs surgery after all?
Apparently Tom said he already got 1 surgery, but there's no pics or anything? I'm not sure what the case is. Maybe Tom is set to get surgery.

I wish Tom the best in recovery, but the whole thing has been a mess.

No one should risk being blind. But man, it doesn't help that guys like Bisping fought with 1 eye. Bro lied to pass the medicals and even beat Rockhold on 2 week's notice when Rockhold was top3 P4P on the planet.

GSP was on a 33 round winning streak when Shields poked him and blinded him in 1 eye. GSP kept composed and won the fight 48-47... at the end he talked about how he still can't see from 1 eye. You can see GSP was scared but he kept composed enough to win the fight.

So, we have seen other Champions go through adversity and fight with 1 eye in championship fights.

Shara Bullet fights all his fights with 1 eye. He can't even get cleared in the US.

So, as far Just Bleed goes... I don't think the fans expected anything from Aspinall that we haven't seen from anyone else.

On Top of that, man... why's the BadAss HW Champion of the world so fragile- that's a thought that runs in my head too. Like man it's January now and Tom and his dad are still on about this eye injury. It's been over 2 months, let's move on. I know eye injuries are much more complicated than muscle injuries... but I don't think this does Aspinall any favors as far 'image' goes.

The HW Champion should come off as Unbeatable, as someone who would beat any man in a street fight.
Think Prime Tyson.
Think Prime Fedor.

Dudes were invincible.

Tom Aspinall seemed to have had that AURA taken away from him. And I think that's why fans have turned on Tom Aspinall.


Tl, Dr - I think fans expected Tom to muscle through the eye injury since we slated him as the MAN to beat Jon Jones. Or at the least, we expect him to get over the eye injury by now and get back to the cage to prove himself.

Jones is still ducking

 

[Captain Herb]

Framing isn’t a wrestling move. I saw it live. It wasn’t intentional. Nothing that occurs that quickly can be intentional. Although I will admit - between laughing at how the fight was playing out, it’s possible I missed some key details.

I see, you were in the nosebleeds and had a better view than UFC's HD super slo-mo cams. 'nothing that quick can be intentional'. I've seen a lot of people in here call you things that generally mean retarded but now I see why