Multiple fence grabs to stand up from heavy ground and pound should be a DQ loss

[ElLunico]

Lmao but when a fighter wins via DQ from getting fouled yall fucking cry and crucify the fighter?

But a fence grab you want instant DQ???? Are you rtarded? Go ask any fighter what foul they'd rather take lol. Their opponent grabbing the fence or their opponent poking their eye or hitting their nuts? Lol

 

[Ladder Master]

Claw, claw, claw your way...... gently up the fence.

 

[Ladder Master]

 

[maximus__]

That's my point. Ref was probably taking into consideration that he would have been seconds away from stopping the fight if Tallison didn't cheat so he decided to call it a TKO. Calling it a DQ would have rewarded Tallison for cheating because a DQ loss always looks better on your record than a TKO. Calling it a DQ also would have robbed Derrick of a TKO win over a hot prospect on his record which wouldn't be fair to him.

You can't call it a TKO then. If he called DQ for fence grabs that is justifiable based off the series of events, but would set a new precedence around fence grabs.

He called it a TKO saying he was finished and not defending himself. He got dropped and remained with his chest up and his hands supporting him. He then escaped from under Lewis, before turning his back and working back to his knees. He pulled himself back to standing and was turning back as the fight was stopped.

None of that constitutes a TKO'd fighter not defending themselves. He did everything asked and moved through 3 separate positions to get back to his feet. Sure he committed a foul during that period but it's not like he nut shot his opponent or eye gouged him. He grabbed the cage like we see every single card in the UFC.

Let that sequence play out and take points if you get a break in the action. Otherwise call a TKO for every fence grab from here on out.

 

[wrb]

Your not defending if you are grabbing a fence, this is a very strange hill to die on.

 

[wrb]

You can't call it a TKO then. If he called DQ for fence grabs that is justifiable based off the series of events, but would set a new precedence around fence grabs.

He called it a TKO saying he was finished and not defending himself. He got dropped and remained with his chest up and his hands supporting him. He then escaped from under Lewis, before turning his back and working back to his knees. He pulled himself back to standing and was turning back as the fight was stopped.

None of that constitutes a TKO'd fighter not defending themselves. He did everything asked and moved through 3 separate positions to get back to his feet. Sure he committed a foul during that period but it's not like he nut shot his opponent or eye gouged him. He grabbed the cage like we see every single card in the UFC.

Let that sequence play out and take points if you get a break in the action. Otherwise call a TKO for every fence grab from here on out.

This has nothing to do with fence grabs and rules, this was a person who had his brain shutoff and was in survival mode. If anything the fence grabs proved how fucked up he actually was. He moved through 3 separate positions scrambling for his life and instinct kicked in telling him to grab the fence. At no point point was he like "maybe I can turn the tables with a sneaky fence grab and see if they call it" lol. It actually makes him look really bad and stupid if he was actually 100% during that whole exchange, so I think its better for him if everyone just calls it a TKO.

 

[Captain Herb]

Herzog already said he wasn't even thinking about the fence grabs. If BB couldn't end the fight when Waldo was rocked and helpless on the ground and then climbed the fence with his back turned, he probably wasn't going to.

 

[Captain Herb]

Sure it was. Using fouls to escape is not intelligently defending yourself.

Actually it is

 

[Alpha_T83]

That's my point. Ref was probably taking into consideration that he would have been seconds away from stopping the fight if Tallison didn't cheat so he decided to call it a TKO. Calling it a DQ would have rewarded Tallison for cheating because a DQ loss always looks better on your record than a TKO. Calling it a DQ also would have robbed Derrick of a TKO win over a hot prospect on his record which wouldn't be fair to him.

Yea a few other people mentioned that, and I think you're probably right.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Herzog already said he wasn't even thinking about the fence grabs. If BB couldn't end the fight when Waldo was rocked and helpless on the ground and then climbed the fence with his back turned, he probably wasn't going to.

Did he give an interview? I didn't see it. Would be great to hear his view on the stoppage.

 

[TCE]

Damn, a brand new thread on this story again from last week?

 

[Captain Herb]

Did he give an interview? I didn't see it. Would be great to hear his view on the stoppage.

News Thread 'Herzog changes tune, says stoppage was premature'

Jul 14, 2025

UFC Nashville referee reaches new conclusion after reliving controversial Derrick Lewis stoppage

'Big' John McCarthy spoke with referee Jason Herzog following his main event stoppage at UFC Nashville.

bloodyelbow.com

On the Weighing In Podcast, legendary MMA referee ‘Big’ John McCarthy says he had a phone call with Jason Herzog following the main event, getting his thoughts on the stoppage.

“He goes, John, when he got hit, he went down,” McCarthy said.

“[Herzog] goes, I saw him trying to move. I was looking at the shots that that Lewis was throwing. I saw that a couple of them missed. Then, I saw that there was one that was decent, then there was a huge one...

• Captain Herb
• Replies: 44
• Forum: UFC Discussion

• 

 

[sdpdude9]

I think a fence grab in a chaotic moment of the fight is not worthy of a disqualification. Resetting the position and/or taking a point is fine.

Still maintain this was a trash stoppage. He did everything you want to see from a fighter to stay in the fight. Unfortunately committed a foul in doing so which may be penalized but it was not worthy of a stoppage. I don’t buy he couldn’t stand up without the fence, I think it was just one of those things that happens in the chaos.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

You can't call it a TKO then. If he called DQ for fence grabs that is justifiable based off the series of events, but would set a new precedence around fence grabs.

He called it a TKO saying he was finished and not defending himself. He got dropped and remained with his chest up and his hands supporting him. He then escaped from under Lewis, before turning his back and working back to his knees. He pulled himself back to standing and was turning back as the fight was stopped.

None of that constitutes a TKO'd fighter not defending themselves. He did everything asked and moved through 3 separate positions to get back to his feet. Sure he committed a foul during that period but it's not like he nut shot his opponent or eye gouged him. He grabbed the cage like we see every single card in the UFC.

Let that sequence play out and take points if you get a break in the action. Otherwise call a TKO for every fence grab from here on out.

Grabbing the fence to survive getting finished isn't the same as regular fouls and shouldn't be treated as such imo. Deducting a point and resetting or awarding the other guy the position is fine for normal fouls but not for a foul like grabbing the fence when you're dangerously close to getting finished, why?

Because the ref is essentially giving the cheater a get out of jail card. Yes the cheater is getting punished by losing the point but he's also benefitting because in the time it takes to deduct the point and reset them, Texeira is still being given a chance to come back into the fight cause even if the ref reset them and awarded BB top position Texeira isn't going to be rocked anymore so his chances of defending himself on the bottom and surviving greatly increases. Which inherently punishes BB because what if Texeira finishes BB in a later round? Or he wins the other 4 rounds? Then BB gets fucked over.

DQ probably would have been the best call to make but that again, would have been taking away what should of been a TKO victory for BB and softening the loss for Texeira which benefits him.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

There’s people on sherdog who are arguing that this is intelligent defense.

 

[sdpdude9]

Grabbing the fence to survive getting finished isn't the same as regular fouls and shouldn't be treated as such imo. Deducting a point and resetting or awarding the other guy the position is fine for normal fouls but not for a foul like grabbing the fence when you're dangerously close to getting finished, why?

Because the ref is essentially giving the cheater a get out of jail card. Yes the cheater is getting punished by losing the point but he's also benefitting because in the time it takes to deduct the point and reset them, Texeira is still being given a chance to come back into the fight cause even if the ref reset them and awarded BB top position Texeira isn't going to be rocked anymore so his chances of defending himself on the bottom and surviving greatly increases. Which inherently punishes BB because what if Texeira finishes BB in a later round? Or he wins the other 4 rounds? Then BB gets fucked over.

DQ probably would have been the best call to make but that again, would have been taking away what should have been a TKO victory for BB and softening the loss for Texeira which benefits him.

The rules explicitly lay out what a referee can do in the event of a foul. Disqualify, deduct points, reset position. Nowhere does it differentiate fouls for different scenarios. Nowhere does it say a foul can be punished in any other way.

So it’s really whether an immediate disqualification is warranted without a warning issued for a fence grab in a wild moment of the fight. I’d say no, but that’s the real discussion.

 

[Ladder Master]

Teixeira could have, you know kicked his ass faster if he wanted to win.

 

[maximus__]

This has nothing to do with fence grabs and rules, this was a person who had his brain shutoff and was in survival mode. If anything the fence grabs proved how fucked up he actually was. He moved through 3 separate positions scrambling for his life and instinct kicked in telling him to grab the fence. At no point point was he like "maybe I can turn the tables with a sneaky fence grab and see if they call it" lol. It actually makes him look really bad and stupid if he was actually 100% during that whole exchange, so I think its better for him if everyone just calls it a TKO.

Haha what? He didn't go out at all even from the initial shot that dropped him. He landed on his butt with his hands back behind him...The guy was with it enough to not stop moving, not just cover up on the bottom to be finished and continue to get to his feet by doing something people do all the time and get away with. He got dropped and was fully conscious the entire time defending himself.

 

[spinitch]

Let it go and DQ him later if necessary if Lewis does not do it. Robbed Lewis of a clear KO or decision. If decision taking a point for good measure. Continuation happens a lot in sports.

 

[maximus__]

Grabbing the fence to survive getting finished isn't the same as regular fouls and shouldn't be treated as such imo. Deducting a point and resetting or awarding the other guy the position is fine for normal fouls but not for a foul like grabbing the fence when you're dangerously close to getting finished, why?

Because the ref is essentially giving the cheater a get out of jail card. Yes the cheater is getting punished by losing the point but he's also benefitting because in the time it takes to deduct the point and reset them, Texeira is still being given a chance to come back into the fight cause even if the ref reset them and awarded BB top position Texeira isn't going to be rocked anymore so his chances of defending himself on the bottom and surviving greatly increases. Which inherently punishes BB because what if Texeira finishes BB in a later round? Or he wins the other 4 rounds? Then BB gets fucked over.

DQ probably would have been the best call to make but that again, would have been taking away what should of been a TKO victory for BB and softening the loss for Texeira which benefits him.

How is his grabbing the fence any different to any other fighter grabbing it? They are all grabbing it to get up or avoid being taken down to remain in the best position for them to not be finished. I never said reset. I said let that sequence play out and when there is a break in the action deduct a point.

He keeps doing it to survive multiple sequences, then you DQ him like every other foul in MMA. We see it all the time with nut shots and eyepokes to milk recovery time or fighters pretend they got hit low. Why is it suddenly so different because he got dropped 10 seconds earlier? He did what he was meant to and initially intelligently defended himself in 2 separate dequences prior to the fence grabs. All that happened was that he got dropped and Lewis landed some follow up shots. Sure Lewis Ko's people, but at no point did he really have Texeira hurt. It wasn't a TKO stoppage in the slightest and that's what I have an issue with.

There have been less than 10 points deducted for fence grabs within the UFC this decade. These aren't even the most blatant fence grabs we have seen to change the outcome of the fight in MMA. (See some below)
Lewis still had to actually finish him to win the fight. He missed half his shots until he was grabbing the cage. Just let the fight play out and penalize him after.