Monson vs. Pe de Pano brawl

[Terere**]

Let me get this straight.

Monson says they explained the rules, but you dont believe him.
The kid in the hoodie presented video evidence about the rules, but you don't believe him.
Hayliks was actually at the tournament and HEARD THE RULES IN PERSON, but you don't believe him.

Rediculous. PDP flat out cheated and a BJJ coach I truly respect not only caved in to a supposed "athlete" because of endless whining, but than that BJJ coach yelled at the hoodie kid for MAKING SENSE.

I'm embarrased to be a part of a sport where ethnocentric bias is so prevalent and this video is a great example for why BJJ should never be an olympic sport.

HAHA I laugh at you getting all fired up on this.. haha
Now, I never said I didn't believe hayliks, I just doubted it, since in the X number thread in another forum no one even mentions it, guys like Parrumpinha too. So, yeah, and if hayliks is correct, then some serious bs happened. But PDP wouldn't tap to the can opener not knowing the rules were to his favor.

 

[Shemhazai]

I wanna know what triggered the brawl at the end of the video. Did someone push/slap Monson to make him lose it like that? He seemed so composed earlier.

 

[Calibur]

HAHA I laugh at you getting all fired up on this.. haha
Now, I never said I didn't believe hayliks, I just doubted it, since in the X number thread in another forum no one even mentions it, guys like Parrumpinha too. So, yeah, and if hayliks is correct, then some serious bs happened. But PDP wouldn't tap to the can opener not knowing the rules were to his favor.

Well, I laugh at your homoerotic av so I guess we are about even.

I don't like people who whine and I don't like it when race is a factor in a stupid decision.

I'm weird that way.

If you asked me who I liked more I would have said PDP because I just like his style more than Monson's, but I can't say that anymore after watching this.

The best case scenario is that PDP misunderstood the rules. That was his mistake. They decided to continue the match as a favor to him. He had a chance to rectify it by going back out and continuing but he chose not to. That's cowardice.

I actually think there has to be more to this story than what we see on the vid because I am having a hard time believing that Relson Gracie would make a decision like this off the info we've seen.

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

Bottom line is that Monson behaved like a fighter and Pe de Pano behaved like an Italian Football Star taking a dive.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

hahah awesome tournament i wish i was there. And rofl at Shonie Carter at the end.

The gracie-barra guys were pussies for all attacking monson like that. And lol at how when the fight breaks out like 10 people all swarm Monson to restrain him while the GB guys are all running around screaming like idiots.

 

[hayliks]

Well, I laugh at your homoerotic av so I guess we are about even.

I don't like people who whine and I don't like it when race is a factor in a stupid decision.

I'm weird that way.

If you asked me who I liked more I would have said PDP because I just like his style more than Monson's, but I can't say that anymore after watching this.

The best case scenario is that PDP misunderstood the rules. That was his mistake. They decided to continue the match as a favor to him. He had a chance to rectify it by going back out and continuing but he chose not to. That's cowardice.

I actually think there has to be more to this story than what we see on the vid because I am having a hard time believing that Relson Gracie would make a decision like this off the info we've seen.

I was pretty far back and couldn't hear much of what people were yelling, but from what people said, Relson was yelling "This is my tournament, I would NEVER allow can openers" even though it was written that they were allowed in the closed guard AND they demonstrated it as legal before the no gi divisions began at the beginning of the day.

 

[georgejjr]

The tournament itself was a complete clusterfuck. I was in the blue belt mens middle weight division that year. It was scheduled to begin at 3pm (I think). They called out over the loud speaker that our division at 4pm, then at 4:30pm they called out saying it would start at 5pm, etc... I didn't step on the mat until I think 9:15pm or so. I won my first match. My second match was literally about 10 minutes after my first because they tried to rush the shit out of it. I got royally fucked in that match too. Before I begin, after the match I found out the table workers were from the same team as my 2nd opponent, I also find out the ref is the FUCKING FATHER of my opponent as well. So I shoot in and get a takedown out of bounds. Ref says we went out of bounds no points, no advantage. I do it again, takedown out of bounds, same bullshit. Now my opponent is afraid of my shot and just backs up. He backs up for THE REST OF THE FUCKING MATCH. The ref says "ok it's 0-0, who do you think was more aggressive?" to the table workers, first off UHMMM WTF? WHO DOES THAT, and second yeah the table workers were from the same school as my opponent so who wins? That shit bag. I honestly tried to get my money back for the tournament because it was utter bullshit. I'm glad it's no longer run by Relson and who's that other fuckhead? John Smith or whoever, the fatass black guy.

Okay, that sounds like a really, really badly run tournament ... definitely one to avoid. They're not doing their sport any favors by running it like that. And a father refereeing his son? Damn, that's just bizarre, no sport (or so I thought) allows that.

 

[jjmuaythaiguy]

This is old.

From 2004?

I was not there. Others here were.

Relson always likes to say that no one at his tournaments gets a serious injury. I think that helps him with his insurance for the events he holds. He has told me that he does not allow cervical (spinal) applications whether it be to escape or submit.

I have respect for the way that Monson handled himself. He seems to be trying to get his point across without the loudness and drama of Pe de Pano. I respect him for that.

In my humblest of outside opinions but also being a Relson student, when I view the video it seems that Relson was going to allow the ref to restart the event. What pisses off Relson is at the 12:16 mark when some guy says directly to Relson that "You(Relson) said ...." (basically that can openers were legal in whatever situation)

**From my own experience and dealings with Relson he appears very upset at this accusation - true or not***

That is when Relson says, "You say that I told you this? You lie. I never said this." The guy kind of backtracks and says it was covered by the refs at the rules. But Relson says "I know you don't have me on video saying that can openers are legal, you lie." Then he points to the ref and says, "To me Pe de Pano is the winner".

Relson is my instructor so I got to take his back as his student and friend, just as you all would try to explain your instructor at his own tournament.

But I was not there, if someone got Relson on video saying can openers or any other spinal/cervical attack submission is legal I would love to see that since he always preaches no cervical attacks.

Now I understand 100% what Haylicks and the others are saying that they have the rules in writing and heard the ref go over can openers and other cervical attacks. I have say that I can see that is where the confusion occurs. You get the rules that say it is legal, a ref may say how it is legal and then you have Relson saying he never said it. Both are right.

It was just a small thing that blew up. As another poster said, I don't see Pe de Pano tapping to that can opener unless he knew that he could get the DQ. I also don't see Monson applying the can opener unless he knew that he would not get the DQ.

So there are two sides of every story and no one knows what happened, shodding refs, rules confusion, rules enforcement, brazilian pride, money, who knows.

Instead of hashing this video out every so often, just leave it in the past and move on. I really respect Monson for his handling of the situation though.

Its Friday so have a great weekend and be safe sherdoggers.

 

[Shaolin Bushido]

This is old.

From 2004?

I was not there. Others here were.

Relson always likes to say that no one at his tournaments gets a serious injury. I think that helps him with his insurance for the events he holds. He has told me that he does not allow cervical (spinal) applications whether it be to escape or submit.

I have respect for the way that Monson handled himself. He seems to be trying to get his point across without the loudness and drama of Pe de Pano. I respect him for that.

In my humblest of outside opinions but also being a Relson student, when I view the video it seems that Relson was going to allow the ref to restart the event. What pisses off Relson is at the 12:16 mark when some guy says directly to Relson that "You(Relson) said ...." (basically that can openers were legal in whatever situation)

**From my own experience and dealings with Relson he appears very upset at this accusation - true or not***

That is when Relson says, "You say that I told you this? You lie. I never said this." The guy kind of backtracks and says it was covered by the refs at the rules. But Relson says "I know you don't have me on video saying that can openers are legal, you lie." Then he points to the ref and says, "To me Pe de Pano is the winner".

Relson is my instructor so I got to take his back as his student and friend, just as you all would try to explain your instructor at his own tournament.

But I was not there, if someone got Relson on video saying can openers or any other spinal/cervical attack submission is legal I would love to see that since he always preaches no cervical attacks.

Now I understand 100% what Haylicks and the others are saying that they have the rules in writing and heard the ref go over can openers and other cervical attacks. I have say that I can see that is where the confusion occurs. You get the rules that say it is legal, a ref may say how it is legal and then you have Relson saying he never said it. Both are right.

It was just a small thing that blew up. As another poster said, I don't see Pe de Pano tapping to that can opener unless he knew that he could get the DQ. I also don't see Monson applying the can opener unless he knew that he would not get the DQ.

So there are two sides of every story and no one knows what happened, shodding refs, rules confusion, rules enforcement, brazilian pride, money, who knows.

Instead of hashing this video out every so often, just leave it in the past and move on. I really respect Monson for his handling of the situation though.

Its Friday so have a great weekend and be safe sherdoggers.

Wise words. Good weekend to you as well.

 

[stu3ufc**]

how does pe de panos stick legs support his thicker upper body



same old gracie barra crying cos they aint got there own way--monson won fairly

 

[stu3ufc**]

aahahhahaha shonnie carter at the end

this is how things go wrong

 

[triggertap79]

I'm glad NAGA took over at the Arnold's.

 

[BillP3]

What kind of grappler are you, really, if a can opener is such a huge problem.

FYI, in training at my gym we use can openers, neck cranks, heel hooks, or whatever. So I really have no sympathy for this kind of pussy shit.

I have even had my collar bone pulled on.

You might want to start looking for another school soon lol. Probably not to far in the future when one of your new guys is going to die from a neck crank or spine manipulation

 

[DirectDrive]

I competed in the tournament, they had a rules meeting where they went over various techniques and the legality of them, and they SPECIFICALLY covered the can opener with the closed guard saying it was legal as long as the guard remains closed. As you can see in the video the guard was closed he tapped so he lost.

pretty straight forward

 

[Calibur]

This is old.


Now I understand 100% what Haylicks and the others are saying that they have the rules in writing and heard the ref go over can openers and other cervical attacks. I have say that I can see that is where the confusion occurs.


Instead of hashing this video out every so often, just leave it in the past and move on. I really respect Monson for his handling of the situation though.

The events are relevant today because there is no reason something like that couldn't happen again. The issue needed a fair resolution and as far as I know it never came.

We can stop talking about it, but that doesn't make the mistake disappear and in my experience it just makes them more likely to happen again.

My only concern is what is going to stop this from happening to me or my teammates?

 

[Terere**]

Bottom line is that both guys were wrong. PDP for not wanting to fight JJ, and Monson for attacking the referee.

 

[judogido]

In the end, it sucks.

The rules should be clear and be made available to anyone (which it was). Any ambiguity should be explained (which it was).

In this case, it seems clear the ref made a decidion to change the rules based on pressure from one competitor.

These sorts of debacles seem more prevalent in BJJ than many other fighting sports - which definitely damages it's credibility as far as being fair and impartial.

It'll always happen. Referees are always going to be biased in some way. They might be more generous with a score if the competitor is on their team/country etc.

In judo, however - there are 3 referees. The 2 "corner judges" CAN overrule a decision made by the centre judge - which does happen regularly as they often see things from different angles.

Also, if judging someone from the immediate family - a referee must excuse himself for that match. As well as this there is the refereeing "tribunal" who also has the power to resolve rulings and disputes.

As a BJJ outsider looking in, this ruling seems completely unimaginable. How can someone who plays by clearly delineated rules still lose????

ALL that referee's matches must therefore be called into question.

 

[Omaplatax]

well it was only 12 years ago but there was a vid on youtube today of the incident again, my whote thing is if snowman is using the move to break pe's guard, its not his fault pe tapped, monson was w in the rules to use the move to break the closed guard, pe tapping is his own fault, he should have opened his guard. he took a bitch way out, and who taps to that anyway just put your head into his chest and then theres no more leverage