Monson vs. Pe de Pano brawl

[Yanoush]

Why were neck locks banned with such high level guys. I though all subs were legal at the black belt level.

 

[HeadBanger]

Why were neck locks banned with such high level guys. I though all subs were legal at the black belt level.

The sad part is that he probably considers that a legit win. :icon_chee

 

[BrokBakJiuJitsu]

I love the Shonnie Carter commentary at the end. Very well done Shonnie

 

[kid dynamite]

as much as it was wrong, pe de pano did win... he played the rules to his advantage and thats all there is to it.

 

[nhbfan8080]

as much as it was wrong, pe de pano did win... he played the rules to his advantage and thats all there is to it.

Actually pe de Pano lost. He did not play to the rules since they don't prohibit tapping out. Monson was the one who played to the rules.

 

[Boylehatesu]

Absolutely. There is no debate here. If the rules state can openers are legal in closed guard, then they're legal case closed. Monson followed the rules TO THE LETTER and you can't penalize someone for following the damn rules. If PDP wanted the can opener to end, he could have opened guard - Monson would have been forced to stop (or be DQ). Tapping out to a legal move means you tapped out plain and simple.

To see the stupidity of awarding PDP the win, lets take other legal moves. Lets say I attempt a scissor sweep...and you tap. You tapped, yet I lose. Lets say I attempt a straight ankle lock and turn towards the outside (legal) and you tap. Yet I lose. I put knee-on-belly and you just can't breathe, so you tap, yet I lose.

Monson should have been awarded the win, or at least just continue the match. Awarding PDP the win was absolute bullshit.

Well put. Well put indeed.

 

[Kimuralex]

Actually pe de Pano lost. He did not play to the rules since they don't prohibit tapping out. Monson was the one who played to the rules.

maybe thats why monson is one of the only high level grapplers i cant watch-he plays by the rules-meaning he will do whatever neccesary to win, even if it is the most boring match in the world

 

[nhbfan8080]

maybe thats why monson is one of the only high level grapplers i cant watch-he plays by the rules-meaning he will do whatever neccesary to win, even if it is the most boring match in the world

I was being sarcastic in my post. The can opener is a legitimate sub by the rules, so if Monson was going for a submission (or just trying to open the guard) it should not be held against him.

If Pe de Pano wants to tap out, well then he loses.

 

[Aethyr]

maybe thats why monson is one of the only high level grapplers i cant watch-he plays by the rules-meaning he will do whatever neccesary to win, even if it is the most boring match in the world

Maybe, but you can't fault a fighter for using the rules to win. Its already been shown that competition BJJ is a different game than "real" BJJ precisely because of the rules. I've seen and been victim to competitors who stall just under the radar enough to win on 1 advantage. Monson is probably the extreme, but in a way, he's just a messenger: grappling rules need to change.

 

[SpartanWarrior]

LOL. that vid was hilarious.

 

[johil d'o]

Yea, it's hard to tell what to make of it.


Here's how things would work in my world:

Can-openers to open closed guard should be allowed, but must be released as soon as the guard opens. If the opponent taps during a can-opener without having opened his guard, then the tap is invalid, but the match does not stop. You reset in a 'bottom man on back with knees up and feet on floor, top man on his knees with hands on bottom man's knees' open-guard starting position. No points or advantages awarded. And if you refuse/are unable to continue, then you forefeit, because you were not hurt in an illegal hold.

Problem solved.

I agree 100%. WHy should PDP be permitted to tap rather than open the guard?

 

[Gabicho]

as much as it was wrong, pe de pano did win... he played the rules to his advantage and thats all there is to it.

He tapped to the can opener while his guard was closed = the can opener was legal.

Jeff was willing to go back to the mat even though he had already won. To me it looked like PDP's team pressured the refs enough to literally steal the win.

BS.

 

[HeadBanger]

What kind of grappler are you, really, if a can opener is such a huge problem.

FYI, in training at my gym we use can openers, neck cranks, heel hooks, or whatever. So I really have no sympathy for this kind of pussy shit.

I have even had my collar bone pulled on.

 

[georgejjr]

They are worse than football refs.

Okay, you're clearly exaggerating here, no reason to go overboard :icon_twis

A lot of the discussion of what should be the rule were beside the point ... in a sporting event you go by the rule as it stood during the event, whether the rule made sense or not. It sounds like what Monson did was legal within the rules, so a tap is a tap.

On the other hand, I think it probably shouldn't be legal, it'll just lead to serious neck injuries. Its the kind of thing that keeps a sport from growing.

 

[Knots619]

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/...jeff-monson-vs-pe-de-pano-cruz_sport?from=rss

I don't like Pe, but he was right this time.. If the cervical is applied, and you tap, its over, Monson is disqualified. But the whole video is entertaining as hell if you know Portuguese. Specially funny after Monson takes the ref down, and Sonequinha, a 5 foot dwarf calls him out. I don't know if this was posted here already.. I wish there were subtitles for you guys..

i saw that video aaaaaaages ago

 

[Samurai Jack]

What kind of grappler are you, really, if a can opener is such a huge problem.

FYI, in training at my gym we use can openers, neck cranks, heel hooks, or whatever. So I really have no sympathy for this kind of pussy shit.

I have even had my collar bone pulled on.

thats ok if you train catch wrestling. In BJJ, that is a no-no.

 

[Gsoares2***]

pe de pano is one of the best black belts ever..

Say what you want about this win - but its still a win.. and i for one think its hillarious.

I would be pissed if i was monson.. but Pe De Pano used the rules to his advantage... and won.. simple as that.

 

[hayliks]

pe de pano is one of the best black belts ever..

Say what you want about this win - but its still a win.. and i for one think its hillarious.

I would be pissed if i was monson.. but Pe De Pano used the rules to his advantage... and won.. simple as that.

The thing is Pe De Pano didn't use the rules to his advantage, he cried about it until Relson gave him the win basically. If you watch the video, Relson REFUSES to watch the video on the rules. Like I said a dozen times, I was at the event and they had a rules meeting with all of the contestants (I guess Pe De Pano skipped that part) and they SPECIFICALLY went over that it was ok to use the can opener in somebody's closed guard. They showed the technique with a closed guard and said it was ok, then they showed it with an open guard and said it was illegal. You couldn't get more clear than that. The video of their match clearly shows Pe De Pano with his guard closed, he even tightens his guard up to a figure four, and then taps. How can anybody (unless you have a CLEAR bias like Relson) think that Pe De Pano deserves a win via disqualification?

 

[HeadBanger]

thats ok if you train catch wrestling. In BJJ, that is a no-no.

I train BJJ. Some guys do that stuff some guys don't, but no one bitches about it.

I say if you want to win matches by staying in the white lines then you might want to try tennis. I'm looking at you pe de pano.

 

[TheLionTamer]

i wonder what hermes franca was thining the whole time