MMA is the only major sport whose fandom hates the athletes as a class of people

[IDL]

1. Frame an argument as "hate vs not hate"
2. Assign my position into the "not hate" group in order to plant my flag on the moral high ground
3. win the argument as long as everyone accepts my tactic

 

[Oscar Madison]

Take your debate-lording back to whatever incel forum you crawled out of and stop trying to derail the thread. Thanks.

TS going into full meltdown.

 

[moosaev]

I'm definitely aware of that. I would think that most sports fandoms lean right-of-center as they are all based around competition and hierarchy. But I don't see NFL or NBA fans categorically hating the athletes they watch and wanting their lives to be worse off. But its likely the case that the MMA fandom is more to the right on average than other sports fandoms.

I don't think the NBA leans right, if anything it leans slightly left. NFL is America's game i don't think it leans either way it's probably representative of the country as a whole. MLB and NHL probably lean right. Either way, the major sports have far larger fan bases and are therefore much more diverse politically. Even boxing fan base is more diverse than MMA.

 

[Frank Kain]

They don't destroy themselves for our entertainment. They do it because they want money.

Mmm, the NFL is somewhat analogous to MMA. As fans, it’s a good thing that we give a shit, for the health of the sport. Today’s NFL (big, powerful, profitable), is built on the backs of the men that competed in the 50s through the 70s, and sold insurance in the offseason. They flew commercial, they didn’t have a lot of security, so they had to unionize to protect those men. There’s still lots of sad stories, but the NFL owners (like the UFC, Fertitta’s, Dana, etc.) could give a shit. Only bad press, unions, fan pressure, etc. made any of that possible. It strengthened the NFL, made for a better product. It’s never really translated to Boxing and MMA well, but it probably should at some point. With better pay and end of career options, MMA would improve. Obviously, it’s very complicated, tied to TV revenue, and so on. But the point, I think TS is trying to make, is why do people hate on that? Like, showing a passion for the sport and concern for its future and the old competitors is silly or misplaced.

 

[StonedLemur]

They don't destroy themselves for our entertainment. They do it because they want money.

And without an audience they don't make that money sir.

 

[TR1]

People in red states have been watching FOX news propoganda that California is falling apart for decades. It's pathetic.

 

[m249viking]

haha, I love it! It’s a good point. This will inevitably head to the War Room. It’s the ‘culture warriors.’ Politics and points of view used to be a thing you could disagree on, and it was OK. No hate…Now, we have people siding with Russia, just so they can disagree with Biden. It’s just stupid. Have some perspective. Like if you support California legislation for MMA, you’re a socialist or some shit. C’mon, reality is calling, it wants you back.

Maybe they disagree with USA’s aggressive expansion of its vassal states under the guise of NATO??? Or USA’s need for forever war??? Or maybe they look at the legislature’s track record of administering funds??? Or perhaps they don’t want to pay and increased ticket price??

 

[TR1]

Maybe they disagree with USA’s aggressive expansion of its vassal states under the guise of NATO??? Or USA’s need for forever war??? Or maybe they look at the legislature’s track record of administering funds??? Or perhaps they don’t want to pay and increased ticket price??

That requires self reflection, something many Americans (and people from other NATO states) are pathologically incapable of doing.

 

[blackheart]

1. Frame an argument as "hate vs not hate"
2. Assign my position into the "not hate" group in order to plant my flag on the moral high ground
3. win the argument as long as everyone accepts my tactic

The war room's legendary above it all fence-sitter. Go take your debate-pervertry back to the war room. Oh wait, you tucked tail and fled from there.

Do you care to meaningfully weigh in on the substance of the conversation or are you just here to show everyone your pseudo-intellectual patina?

 

[moreorless87]

By hate, I don't mean fans dislike specific fighters for particular reasons.
I mean hate as in like, as a category of people.

Yesterday we had a thread about a massively positive development for the well-being of fighters - California has passed legislation to take a tiny % of MMA ticket sales, and put it in a retirement fund for fighters.

Surely this development was met by fans with cheers and celebrations right? Fighters getting benefits? These people who destroy their bodies and brains for our entertainment getting a tiny semblance of long-term security?

WRONG

It's "woke california bs"
It's "libtards gonna libtard"
It's "big gubbmint takin' our money again"

Every time there is a big thread about a fighter's union, half (or more) of the community tears the idea down. How dare fighter's come together to try and get decent treatment and pay! How dare they try and get guaranteed medical treatment! The poor little mom and pop multinational corporation of the UFC can't possibly afford such things!

I do not know what to take away from these sorts of messages from the MMA community, other than that a significant chunk of the fandom, or a small majority, just actually hate the fighters. They want the worst for them. They don't want them to share in a fair amount of the profits that they generate. They don't want them to have medical care. They don't want them to have pensions. If you don't want these things for fighters, you just hate the fighters.

I don't know of any other sports fandom that behaves like this. I don't know of any outrage or backlash from fans, when the NBA, MLB or NFL created players unions. Whenever I see in the news that baseball, basketball or football players have negotiated for some new benefit or upgrade to their contracts, that is it. It's just a news blip announcing that. I don't see any baseball fans going "OMG! Can you believe it Frank?! The MLBPA just negotiated for minimum contracts to be 500k instead of 300k! Disgusting!! What a bunch of woke bs!!"

I just do not get it. Why do you watch a sport where you actively hate the athletes you are watching? It's caveman neanderthal type shit.

The big issue I would argue is that MMA was sold to a lot of people though Dana White, there fans of him and the idea of his business sucess moreso than they are the sport of MMA.

You didnt get Don King fanboys in boxing, you don't get NFL fans who love the owners on a franchise more than the team, only in MMA which has targeted pro wrestling style rubes.

 

[m249viking]

That requires self reflection, something many Americans (and people from other NATO states) are pathologically incapable of doing.

You are extremely bigoted to people who don’t hold your point of view.

 

[m249viking]

https://x.com/walkeramerica/status/1713928663865966627?s=46

 

[blackheart]

TS going into full meltdown.

View attachment 1006880

Yeah, asking you to stop derailing the thread and going off topic is me going into full meltdown.

p.s. you guys are still using the ONE meme you have from 8 years ago? doesn't it ever get old beating that dead horse for the better part of a decade? Are you going to hit me with the attack helicopter line next? Get new material. I'm just embarrassed for you at this point.

 

[jx820]

The poor little mom and pop multinational corporation of the UFC can't possibly afford such things!

To whatever extent possible the UFC would offload these costs onto the consumer, not ask their execs and shareholders to take a haircut.

If you don't want these things for fighters, you just hate the fighters.

The opposite of love isn't necessarily hate. It's indifference. Sure some people actively oppose seeing someone else have a good life, but some people are just indifferent. If the fighters want to unionize, I think that's probably in their best interest. If they don't, that's on them, one less expense factored into my PPV price. California wants to pad the tickets, so fighters can retire comfortably at 35... have at it. Not sure how it's going to work, but it's none of my business.

 

[Frank Kain]

Maybe they disagree with USA’s aggressive expansion of its vassal states under the guise of NATO??? Or USA’s need for forever war??? Or maybe they look at the legislature’s track record of administering funds??? Or perhaps they don’t want to pay and increased ticket price??

Ukraine is its own country. And they are entitled to do what they want. How can i support Russia bombing their cities and starting a war? Warfare has been constant from both parties (Rep/Dem) a like. To try to pin it on Biden is infantile. For MMA, it’s common sense to me, to see some of the money I spend as a fan to go to the athletes that built the sport. Some of them are too far gone (like Ken Shamrock), but Justin Gaethje, for example. Maybe his future will be great after MMA, but I think it’s in the UFC’s interest to make sure he has health coverage in the coming years. No different than NFL and MLB. It’s good for the sport.

 

[blackheart]

To whatever extent possible the UFC would offload these costs onto the consumer, not ask their execs and shareholders to take a haircut.



The opposite of love isn't necessarily hate. It's indifference. Sure some people actively oppose seeing someone else have a good life, but some people are just indifferent. If the fighters want to unionize, I think that's probably in their best interest. If they don't, that's on them, one less expense factored into my PPV price. California wants to pad the tickets, so fighters can retire comfortably at 35... have at it. Not sure how it's going to work, but it's none of my business.

The opposite of love is fear, not indifference. Indifference is the center between love and fear. Anyway...

Look at how the prices of ufc tickets and ppvs have skyrocketed without anything additional going to the fighters. Prices are going up anyways.

But also, surely you realize that the ufc is a business and they have to be competitive. They can't just raise prices exponentially. Either way, if the UFC adopted this exact plan and offloaded 100% of the cost to the fans, is anyone really going to cry about a 1% increase in ticket prices? UFC ticket prices have climbed hundreds of percentage points from the ufcs inception. With none of those price increases going to fighters. I'm not going to whine about a 1% ticket increase when it goes directly to fighters and not to snow on Dana White's driveway

 

[trenton123]

I hate this thread. So does that mean I like it?????? I don't even know anymore.

 

[KOPPE]

most of mma fans consist of mentally challenged conservatives and closet racists.
and these ... "people" cannot be reasoned with.

 

[jx820]

The opposite of love is fear, not indifference. Indifference is the center between love and fear. Anyway...

Look at how the prices of ufc tickets and ppvs have skyrocketed without anything additional going to the fighters. Prices are going up anyways.

But also, surely you realize that the ufc is a business and they have to be competitive. They can't just raise prices exponentially. Either way, if the UFC adopted this exact plan and offloaded 100% of the cost to the fans, is anyone really going to cry about a 1% increase in ticket prices? UFC ticket prices have climbed hundreds of percentage points from the ufcs inception. With none of those price increases going to fighters. I'm not going to whine about a 1% ticket increase when it goes directly to fighters and not to snow on Dana White's driveway

Love and fear are both empassioned positions. They're not the same, but they come from the same place. The opposite is not giving a shit at all total indifference.

I bitch regardless of what the prices go up for but if the fighters want it, they should go for it. They (individually or collectively) should demand the things they want. I'd prefer they leave the rest of us out of it.

 

[Frank Kain]

You are extremely bigoted to people who don’t hold your point of view.

no, I just disagree. Dude, were you at? I’m in east Iowa, c’mon over to my house and watch 294, brother. Americans can disagree and still like each other. I gotta finish up some work in Nebraska and be back on Friday. Hope you like Busch Lite, they drink it like tap water around here.