Opinion Mike Rowe - 4 Year College Degrees Are Now Shameful

[FIMN]

... what? Did I catch ylu guys in ghe middle of an ongoing fight or something? What is going on here?

I suggested that people without higher education would be more likely to share outright false and misleading news articles, given that one of the things that you are taught in university/college is critically examining sources for veracity, how to cross reference them etc. If you can't do this you'll fail classes. I pointed out that the inverse correlation between education level and mindlessly posting bullshit was something that I read about during the Brexit referendum. I suspect if I did even the most basic search on Google I'd find more of the same, but my experience with this poster is that he wouldn't believe the sky is blue unless Donald Trump told him Hillary Clinton made the sky blue.

True to form, he posts snippets of an article that don't refute my suggestion, nor support what he suggests - namely that higher education makes people more prone to believing bullshit. Of course he didn't actually understand that the information he posted didn't say what he thought it did. Which might prove my point further.

 

[MicroBrew]

Agree or disagree? Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame says that 4 year college degrees are now a source of shame. Some aren't even proudly displaying their degrees since they are considered just paid education and they aren't being valued as they once were:



Personally, I've always felt that experience is more important than a degree. I'd take the kid with a GED but is passionate about technology over the person that went 4 years to college and was told how to use technology. Every single person I've ran into with a degree only knows what they've been taught but the stoner that is on his PC every waking hour knows everything and is almost overqualified.

I totally agree with Mike that not everyone needs to go to college and there are 6 figure jobs waiting out there if you just learn a trade. I don't however agree with the other guy acting like this is new phenomenon that started under Biden or recent years. This has been a slow but steady realization that started when colleges started promoting that EVERYONE needed to go or else you'd end up in the streets. People bought into it for awhile where even entry level jobs were requiring a bachelors. That has finally started to change as it should.

I want the world to be educated but college has turned not into a place of learning but a place of indoctrination by professors. They teach you what to think instead of how to think. College also forces you to learn a bunch of classes that have absolutely nothing with your field of study. Degrees should be 2 years or even not even be based on years but work put in. If there's a specific area that you want to study, you should be able to study and certify. That's a college I would be in favor of and support.

Rowe is just spewing populist conservative cliched perception of American colleges. There's a place for vocational schools and a place for 4 year and graduate colleges. Neither is a replacement for the other.

Critics with similar arguments are shitting on college because of its liberal slant.

If you were a manager at Bechtel or some other engineering firm and needed to hire engineers it is highly likely any prospective employee would atleast have a 4 year degree in engineering or a related field.

 

[Scerpi]

I suggested that people without higher education would be more likely to share outright false and misleading news articles, given that one of the things that you are taught in university/college is critically examining sources for veracity, how to cross reference them etc. If you can't do this you'll fail classes. I pointed out that the inverse correlation between education level and mindlessly posting bullshit was something that I read about during the Brexit referendum. I suspect if I did even the most basic search on Google I'd find more of the same, but my experience with this poster is that he wouldn't believe the sky is blue unless Donald Trump told him Hillary Clinton made the sky blue.

True to form, he posts snippets of an article that don't refute my suggestion, nor support what he suggests - namely that higher education makes people more prone to believing bullshit. Of course he didn't actually understand that the information he posted didn't say what he thought it did. Which might prove my point further.

You realize that that during the height of COVID, the highest % of COVID vaccine skeptics were PhD holders?

The more you learn, the more you realize that supposed "Experts" are either compromised or full of shit.

The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs

There has been much debate over how to get the unvaccinated to get their jabs — shame them, bribe them, persuade them, or treat them as victims of mis- and disinformation campaigns — but who, exactly, are these people? Most of the coverage would have you believe that the surge in cases is...

unherd.com

And lol at thinking having a standard college education means anything now... It all depends on the degree. I'll trust Engineering student over some Liberal Arts Women's studies graduate anyday.

Where do you think most of the radical far left garbage is coming from?

 

[Scerpi]

Rowe is just spewing populist conservative cliched perception of American colleges. There's a place for vocational schools and a place for 4 year and graduate colleges. Neither is a replacement for the other.

Critics with similar arguments are shitting on college because of its liberal slant.

If you were a manager at Bechtel or some or engineering firm and needed to hire engineers it is highly likely any prospective employee would atleast have a 4 year degree in engineering or a related field.

Not necessarily. I worked a for a few years under Kiewit when our company was purchased by them. Water Treatment and Large Pipeline projects. I been doing this work for small and large companies for a long time.

The High End construction managers and superintendents are often field hands who started as a laborers or carpenter's building and setting concrete forms. Up to Foreman, Pipefitters, Assistant Supers.... etc.

These guys were far more valuable on projects than Graduates with Construction Manager or Engineering degrees. Its awe inspiring on fast paced large projects to see teams of engineers and owner reps defer to these guys when they realize he's likely the best guy who knows how a job will realistically need to be built. Drawing it on paper is one thing... Actually getting it put in place is a whole other matter.

I"m a Civil Eng guy who fell into the construction side and typically do Design/Build or CM at risk projects. I often work with guys with zero college experience. I'm closing in on 25 years. I know immediately when to let an experienced field guy do his thing and get out of way.

I get plenty of college grads too. But a degree is no guarantee a new hire is going to be able to cut it. I've seen many flame out and end up Commercial or Home building. Much easier field technical wise.

 

[FIMN]

You realize that that during the height of COVID, the highest % of COVID vaccine skeptics were PhD holders?

The more you learn, the more you realize that supposed "Experts" are either compromised or full of shit.

The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs

There has been much debate over how to get the unvaccinated to get their jabs — shame them, bribe them, persuade them, or treat them as victims of mis- and disinformation campaigns — but who, exactly, are these people? Most of the coverage would have you believe that the surge in cases is...

unherd.com

And lol at thinking having a standard college education means anything now... It all depends on the degree. I'll trust Engineering student over some Liberal Arts Women's studies graduate anyday.

Where do you think most of the radical far left garbage is coming from?

Seems that you've posted something quite unrelated to anything I've posted so I am unsure why you've posted it. Is there any indication higher education is correlated with posting outright false information you are aware of? That's what was being discussed.

I had a read of the paper and its interesting, but seems to be based on self-selecting polls. Has the research been replicated elsewhere? What's the change over time?

Curious if these PHD holders are highly educated rational sceptics in your mind, or brainwashed leftists who have spent too much time in ivory towers and need to get out into the real world. Or maybe all polling is just bullshit.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

In some EU countries you can't hire security guard as security guard in contract without cert etc papers.
Therefore companies are hiring them as attendants etc and are demanding to get these papers in order to keep job and get pay increased.

-\It's should be the same here. But some people ignore this.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- Btw, MIke Rowe should read this quote:

"If you separete the thinkers from the warrios, you risk to be comanded by idiots"

 

[SandisLL]

You realize that that during the height of COVID, the highest % of COVID vaccine skeptics were PhD holders?

The more you learn, the more you realize that supposed "Experts" are either compromised or full of shit.

The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs

There has been much debate over how to get the unvaccinated to get their jabs — shame them, bribe them, persuade them, or treat them as victims of mis- and disinformation campaigns — but who, exactly, are these people? Most of the coverage would have you believe that the surge in cases is...

unherd.com

And lol at thinking having a standard college education means anything now... It all depends on the degree. I'll trust Engineering student over some Liberal Arts Women's studies graduate anyday.

Where do you think most of the radical far left garbage is coming from?

I don't care about public opinion pools anymore. I had 2 vaccines and after this later...Covid.
While IMHO this didn't had effect on me, if test positive = self isolation period....

 

[panamaican]

4 year degrees are not shameful. In what insane world are we ashamed of people who got an education?

As for teachers telling people "what to think", anyone who says that it is pretty much out of touch with how learning "how to think" works. Every class is going to tell a student what to study, and then they will teach students how to analyze what they have been given to study. The teacher assesses the understanding of the analytical tools by whether or not the student can use the tools to reproduce the conclusion.

However, when the student leaves the class, they take the analytical tools with them to use however they wish...including drawing different conclusions from the classroom. That's basic teaching.

It's like teaching a child math. We tell the child that 1+1 = 2. We explain to them how 1+1=2. We assess their understanding of basic addition by seeing if they can repeat the steps that turn "1+1" into "2". When they understand that then they can use the tools of addition to solve whatever problems they want in the future...including disproving that 1+1=2.

It's crazy to me that people miss that the teaching a class is not the same thing as opening said class to open-ended opinion-making. The class is closed spectrum of time to teach a limited set of analytical tools. You're not there to argue or agree with the teacher. You're there to learn the tools, via the curriculum. When you leave the class, you take the tools with you, not the teacher's opinions.

Maybe we've given students too much freedom too early or weakened teaching too much such that the line between classroom and real life has disappeared and people think it's a peer to peer relationship.

 

[spamking]

The point of education is to learn not to make money.

Too bad it's so expensive these days . . .

 

[Red Dragoniop]

I don't care about public opinion pools anymore. I had 2 vaccines and after this later...Covid.
While IMHO this didn't had effect on me, if test positive = self isolation period....

Ooooo you got the clot shot... And still got covid... My scientific guess if you needed a 3rd booster

 

[SandisLL]

Ooooo you got the clot shot... And still got covid... My scientific guess if you needed a 3rd booster

Well, then I didn't yet needed booster because they had told that booster I will need later and vaccine cert is active and still valid...
Then I had positive test and therefore had to self isolate bla bla bla....
While I was Irl to able continue office type work, to do pull ups etc... thanks to God there electronic signature options are awailable so I IRL had worked ( remote work possible till some extent ) when I on paper had this Covid... I wasn't on sick leave, just didn't had visited office 14 days after positive test.

 

[spamking]

Maybe we've given students too much freedom too early or weakened teaching too much such that the line between classroom and real life has disappeared and people think it's a peer to peer relationship.

I suspect this has a lot to do with some of the changes we've seen. Teachers on social media providing reasons why they left the profession often provide examples of how the line between teacher and student has been blurred and/or morphed into a friend/social relationship.

 

[MicroBrew]

Not necessarily. I worked a for a few years under Kiewit when our company was purchased by them. Water Treatment and Large Pipeline projects. I been doing this work for small and large companies for a long time.

The High End construction managers and superintendents are often field hands who started as a laborers or carpenter's building and setting concrete forms. Up to Foreman, Pipefitters, Assistant Supers.... etc.

These guys were far more valuable on projects than Graduates with Construction Manager or Engineering degrees. Its awe inspiring on fast paced large projects to see teams of engineers and owner reps defer to these guys when they realize he's likely the best guy who knows how a job will realistically need to be built. Drawing it on paper is one thing... Actually getting it put in place is a whole other matter.

I"m a Civil Eng guy who fell into the construction side and typically do Design/Build or CM at risk projects. I often work with guys with zero college experience. I'm closing in on 25 years. I know immediately when to let an experienced field guy do his thing and get out of way.

I get plenty of college grads too. But a degree is no guarantee a new hire is going to be able to cut it. I've seen many flame out and end up Commercial or Home building. Much easier field technical wise.

Yes people do rise up the ranks for certain positions but you still needed guys/gals with engineering degrees for certain positions. My dad was an Mech Eng. and my B in law is an Elec Eng. Neither would have been hired for their respective jobs without a college degree. Companies wouldn't be hiring college grads if they didn't need them.

A degree isn't a guarantee because for a lot of jobs you need on the job training, but a degree gives a good indication that you have some grasp of the fundamentals. Voc tech schools teach certain skillsets that colleges don't and vice versa. There is some overlap but a 4 year engineering degree and graduate degrees are more advanced than Voc tech schools offer.

For anyone to claim that college is not necessary and Voc tech is an alternative is like arguing whether a car or pickup is best. Both vehicles have their uses with some overlap.

 

[Scerpi]

Yes people do rise up the ranks for certain positions but you still needed guys/gals with engineering degrees for certain positions. My dad was an Mech Eng. and my B in law is an Elec Eng. Neither would have been hired for their respective jobs without a college degree. Companies wouldn't be hiring college grads if they didn't need them.

A degree isn't a guarantee because for a lot of jobs you need on the job training, but a degree gives a good indication that you have some grasp of the fundamentals. Voc tech schools teach certain skillsets that colleges don't and vice versa. There is some overlap but a 4 year engineering degree and graduate degrees are more advanced than Voc tech schools offer.

For anyone to claim that college is not necessary and Voc tech is an alternative is like arguing whether a car or pickup is best. Both vehicles have their uses with some overlap.

Well.. there was my brother's route. Had no idea what to do... In his early, 20's, he was working Keystone in the winter, fly fishing guide in the summer.

Took up a job as an apprentice electrician because he enjoyed installing and wiring up stereo systems in cars. He installed mine back then and did great a job.

Started in homes and commercial work. I convinced him to move into Industrial. Got his masters license quickly.

Went to Alaska, worked at a mine and got so good at it, his company paid for his Instrumentation degree at the University of Alaska. Moved back Wyoming, worked in the oil field.. now, 20 years later, he's the lead Electrical/Controls guy for all the Weyerhaeuser lumber mills in the US

Has a nice place in Kalispell, Montana. Lives 30 mins from the ski resort and has amazing hunting within an hour of home.

Point is... Don't jump into college just because you've been told that's what you're supposed to do.

There's nothing wrong with taking a couple years after high school doing a few different jobs and just to see where life takes you. Better than going into $100k into debt before your life even gets started and your stuck with a degree in a career you realize you fucking hate.

 

[JustforBROCK]

It depends on the degree. Many are shameful.

I got a BS in Electromechanical Engineering with minors in Physics and applied Mathematics. I found it quite challenging, and I am proud of my degree.

Yeah well Mike Rowe thinks your s fucking dummy and should be a wielder. Go figure. Congrats dude I'm sure that took hella dedication.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

4 year degrees are not shameful. In what insane world are we ashamed of people who got an education?

As for teachers telling people "what to think", anyone who says that it is pretty much out of touch with how learning "how to think" works. Every class is going to tell a student what to study, and then they will teach students how to analyze what they have been given to study. The teacher assesses the understanding of the analytical tools by whether or not the student can use the tools to reproduce the conclusion.

However, when the student leaves the class, they take the analytical tools with them to use however they wish...including drawing different conclusions from the classroom. That's basic teaching.

It's like teaching a child math. We tell the child that 1+1 = 2. We explain to them how 1+1=2. We assess their understanding of basic addition by seeing if they can repeat the steps that turn "1+1" into "2". When they understand that then they can use the tools of addition to solve whatever problems they want in the future...including disproving that 1+1=2.

It's crazy to me that people miss that the teaching a class is not the same thing as opening said class to open-ended opinion-making. The class is closed spectrum of time to teach a limited set of analytical tools. You're not there to argue or agree with the teacher. You're there to learn the tools, via the curriculum. When you leave the class, you take the tools with you, not the teacher's opinions.

Maybe we've given students too much freedom too early or weakened teaching too much such that the line between classroom and real life has disappeared and people think it's a peer to peer relationship.

- Critical thinking shows that people like rowe are just grifters!
Lets be honest, when were already on our 30's, no class will change much of the way we think.