Mike Israetel - sage or egomaniac??

[Phlog]

Exercising certainly beats not exercising for longevity, but health is an afterthought for most if not all high performance-athletes. Exercising for health looks different from training for a sport and especially from actually playing sports.

That's you moving the goalposts, you said:

"I hope the homie never learns that competitive sports in general are probably not conducive to good health"

That's factually incorrect. You may have meant to say something else. You cannot say that competitive sport is probably not conducive to good health. It's almost universally good for health.

I would furthermore say that just playing sport, is beneficial for people's health. Less heart attacks etc.

 

[xPINKx]

I was and am talking about about high-performance sports, not recreational sports. Yes, high-performance have a longer life expectancy as well, but recreational athletes score higher when it comes to quality of life when old.
Competitive/high-performance sports are not usually based on a "balanced lifestyle", have athletes under insane amounts of pressure which often leads to mental health problems and overuse injuries, overtraining, ignoring injuries, ... are obviously negative. Playing a game of football, lacrosse, rugby, handball or whatever else poses a much higher danger of injuries than the GPP-training athletes do. Is it better for people to kick a ball around on the weekend than do nothing at all? Sure. Would the same people have the same if not a better health outcome with a little cardio and some lifting? I'd say so. That is of course not taking into account motivation and the social impact of team sports, but that's not what we're talking about anyway.

 

[maximus__]

I was and am talking about about high-performance sports, not recreational sports. Yes, high-performance have a longer life expectancy as well, but recreational athletes score higher when it comes to quality of life when old.
Competitive/high-performance sports are not usually based on a "balanced lifestyle", have athletes under insane amounts of pressure which often leads to mental health problems and overuse injuries, overtraining, ignoring injuries, ... are obviously negative. Playing a game of football, lacrosse, rugby, handball or whatever else poses a much higher danger of injuries than the GPP-training athletes do. Is it better for people to kick a ball around on the weekend than do nothing at all? Sure. Would the same people have the same if not a better health outcome with a little cardio and some lifting? I'd say so. That is of course not taking into account motivation and the social impact of team sports, but that's not what we're talking about anyway.

What if you combined GPP training to prepare you for that sport? That's the real issue.
38 year old dad does an ACL trying to play soccer on the weekend when he jumps in for a game after having to take a few weekends off due to sick kids.

Yes the highest level of sport isn't necessarily conducive to health compared to general training, but it's better than doing nothing. People want to play a game of basketball on the weekend after sitting behind a desk all week and drinking 6 beers a night and wonder why they do their Achilles.

Athletes have a higher rate of injury, but also a higher rate of return to sports post injury. Elite athlete blows their ACL and returns to sport the following year, GPP dad does the same doing some Crossfit WOD and gains 100lbs and never trains again.

 

[xPINKx]

What if you combined GPP training to prepare you for that sport? That's the real issue.
38 year old dad does an ACL trying to play soccer on the weekend when he jumps in for a game after having to take a few weekends off due to sick kids.

Yes the highest level of sport isn't necessarily conducive to health compared to general training, but it's better than doing nothing. People want to play a game of basketball on the weekend after sitting behind a desk all week and drinking 6 beers a night and wonder why they do their Achilles.

Athletes have a higher rate of injury, but also a higher rate of return to sports post injury. Elite athlete blows their ACL and returns to sport the following year, GPP dad does the same doing some Crossfit WOD and gains 100lbs and never trains again.

I totally agree, fully support "beer leagues" in all sports and hope that people realize that a little GPP will make them better at the sport they choose.

 

[maximus__]

I totally agree, fully support "beer leagues" in all sports and hope that people realize that a little GPP will make them better at the sport they choose.

It drives me nuts that someone will wonder why they get injured all the time playing weekend sports or BJJ. You ask if they do any strength and conditioning work and they say no. You don';t have to be training 5 x a week for your recreational game on the weekend, but a few 2-4 sessions shorter sessions a week is a good idea. Atleast do some strength work and prep for hard sprinting/rounds.

 

[Urban]

I like Mike, I can only watch on or two videos a week though, his Schick gets old. he approaches things scientifically, but most often with a very specific goal in mind: building muscle. Making this your solitary goal is different than training for strength amd conditioning for sport, and he would absolutely agree. I find myself initially disagreeing with him on things like myofascial release, warming up, and cold therapy, but then I realize the science isn't there for building muscle, and that is almost ALWAYS where he is coming from.

For developing explosiveness, peak strength, tendon strength, conditioning, etc. Training methods and recovery are different. There is certainly a ven diagram where methods overlap, but just because something doesn't work for his goals, doesn't mean it's crap for yours.

IMHO criticizing what he says because he uses PEDs when he most often sites studies instead of annecdote is stupid.

 

[JimRussel]

That's you moving the goalposts, you said:

"I hope the homie never learns that competitive sports in general are probably not conducive to good health"

That's factually incorrect. You may have meant to say something else. You cannot say that competitive sport is probably not conducive to good health. It's almost universally good for health.

I would furthermore say that just playing sport, is beneficial for people's health. Less heart attacks etc.

Relax, big guy.

 

[don't ask]

I have to balance his videos out with Alexander Bromley, who has a GREAT video about why you shouldn't get pulled into the "optimal" training mindset.

 

[Phlog]

Relax, big guy.

Noted!

It drives me nuts that someone will wonder why they get injured all the time playing weekend sports or BJJ. You ask if they do any strength and conditioning work and they say no. You don';t have to be training 5 x a week for your recreational game on the weekend, but a few 2-4 sessions shorter sessions a week is a good idea. Atleast do some strength work and prep for hard sprinting/rounds.

Agreed.

I did not miss a snap of American football for 9 seasons, often playing both ways in the early years. Yes I'm durable but also I was squatting, deadlifting, pressing and pulling heavy every week.

Everyone else I've played with has missed play with injuries and the frequency of injuries inversely correlates directly with gym time.

 

[maximus__]

Noted!

Agreed.

I did not miss a snap of American football for 9 seasons, often playing both ways in the early years. Yes I'm durable but also I was squatting, deadlifting, pressing and pulling heavy every week.

Everyone else I've played with has missed play with injuries and the frequency of injuries inversely correlates directly with gym time.

I pinged my back deadlifting on Monday. I was able to do my upper body session yesterday and then go in and do BJJ. No major pain once I did some rehab and warming up. It was a session on half guard so I was able to train as normal.

2 days later I could probably deadlift heavy again around 80% with no issues. During that time I have work two full days in a reasonably active job.
Today I will focus on recovery with some conditioning work later and most likely be back at 90% by the time I have to squat tomorrow.

You just recover quicker when you are stronger. I have one more lifting session before a recovery week. I have been able to hit all my training with minor adjustments this week, because I am strong and resilient.

Other people do the same and are out for weeks. In the past I have been that person.

 

[Phlog]

I pinged my back deadlifting on Monday. I was able to do my upper body session yesterday and then go in and do BJJ. No major pain once I did some rehab and warming up. It was a session on half guard so I was able to train as normal.

2 days later I could probably deadlift heavy again around 80% with no issues. During that time I have work two full days in a reasonably active job.
Today I will focus on recovery with some conditioning work later and most likely be back at 90% by the time I have to squat tomorrow.

You just recover quicker when you are stronger. I have one more lifting sessiona before a recovery week. I have been able to hit all my training with minor adjustments this week, because I am strong and resilient.

Other people do the same and are out for weeks. In the past I have been that person.

Nice! Yes! This year I fractured my tibula in a game and didn't take a play off, then next week played a game on it and got subbed out against my wishes in the 4th cos we were ahead. Was probably stupid of me but was only possible because of heavy lifting for over a decade.

 

[maximus__]

Nice! Yes! This year I fractured my tibula in a game and didn't take a play off, then next week played a game on it and got subbed out against my wishes in the 4th cos we were ahead. Was probably stupid of me but was only possible because of heavy lifting for over a decade.

Haha I did my fibula head about 18 months ago. I originally thought it was my ACL with the pop it made.
I had something I couldn't miss a month later so I just trained around it. I was fine as long as I didn't have to change directions on it.

It's non weight bearing so no major issue in straight lines, but I can't imagine a tibia would be fun to crash into people on.

 

[Phlog]

Haha I did my fibula head about 18 months ago. I originally thought it was my ACL with the pop it made.
I had something I couldn't miss a month later so I just trained around it. I was fine as long as I didn't have to change directions on it.

It's non weight bearing so no major issue in straight lines, but I can't imagine a tibia would be fun to crash into people on.

Yeesh, lucky it wasn't the ACL! Mine was more of impact than and sheer force so structurally it was still there some. I bound it up pretty tight and added a layer of padding, then I made sure not to dive into any piles and increased my split so I wouldn't get rolled into, that was my biggest fear.

Broken bones ain't to bad to play with depending on the level of it. I've broken my hand before, once in the finger, each thumb and once had my hand between two helmets in collision and broke the ring finger metacarpal. The last put me out of training camp for a month, but the others I just used boxing wraps and taped my hand up properly so they couldn't move.

My problem is not knowing when I should stop!

Never had a tendon go, that's the fear. Not many people seem to come back from that, but then I'm old and shouldn't be doing this shit anyway..

Where you at? UK here.

 

[maximus__]

Yeesh, lucky it wasn't the ACL! Mine was more of impact than and sheer force so structurally it was still there some. I bound it up pretty tight and added a layer of padding, then I made sure not to dive into any piles and increased my split so I wouldn't get rolled into, that was my biggest fear.

Broken bones ain't to bad to play with depending on the level of it. I've broken my hand before, once in the finger, each thumb and once had my hand between two helmets in collision and broke the ring finger metacarpal. The last put me out of training camp for a month, but the others I just used boxing wraps and taped my hand up properly so they couldn't move.

My problem is not knowing when I should stop!

Never had a tendon go, that's the fear. Not many people seem to come back from that, but then I'm old and shouldn't be doing this shit anyway..

Where you at? UK here.

I am in Australia.

Bones are ok, since you have an actual timeline for recovery. Hands are a bit more nuanced.

I think I would rehab an ACL over surgery these days. I know quite a few successful athletes (grappling and running wise) that don't have them and the data is looking pretty good to recovery without surgery.I don't make money from what I do and I reckon I am strong enough function without one.

I am pretty good these days at training around injuries as opposed to stopping. My body responds well to movement. I usually get hurt when I take time off.

My Achilles was close to a full rupture... I was sprinting and strained it and then someone jumped on it and I felt a tear. It's still intact and I am responding well to the rehab, but it's an annoying one. Luckily the air bike has come to the rescue, but I miss my long runs.

 

[Phlog]

I am in Australia.

Bones are ok, since you have an actual timeline for recovery. Hands are a bit more nuanced.

I think I would rehab an ACL over surgery these days. I know quite a few successful athletes (grappling and running wise) that don't have them and the data is looking pretty good to recovery without surgery.I don't make money from what I do and I reckon I am strong enough function without one.

I am pretty good these days at training around injuries as opposed to stopping. My body responds well to movement. I usually get hurt when I take time off.

My Achilles was close to a full rupture... I was sprinting and strained it and then someone jumped on it and I felt a tear. It's still intact and I am responding well to the rehab, but it's an annoying one. Luckily the air bike has come to the rescue, but I miss my long runs.

Yikes, the achilles is my biggest fear, I've had tendonitis in both and just that can be debilitating. Air bike for the win, got one of those as a real luxury purchase but it's been invaluable. Only way I can get cardio without damage to something.

 

[Zankou]

I developed tendonitis recently and it is total BS. Running is over for me, just as I was making great progress. I’m going to try using a rowing machine. I can’t deal with an Achilles rupture.

 

[deadshot138]

I developed tendonitis recently and it is total BS. Running is over for me, just as I was making great progress. I’m going to try using a rowing machine. I can’t deal with an Achilles rupture.

Does tendinitis usually result in a rupture?

 

[Zankou]

Does tendinitis usually result in a rupture?

What you get in the Achilles is technically tendonopathy not tendinitis, in that it’s a progressive tear rather than just inflammation. So if the tearing continues to worsen it will ultimately tear entirely. You need it to heal up rather than continue tearing and scarring internally.

 

[deadshot138]

What you get in the Achilles is technically tendonopathy not tendinitis, in that it’s a progressive tear rather than just inflammation. So if the tearing continues to worsen it will ultimately tear entirely. You need it to heal up rather than continue tearing and scarring internally.

How do you heal it without surgery?

 

[Zankou]

How do you heal it without surgery?

Rest and stretches. Surgery doesn’t help unless it’s a full rupture anyways.

But usually the problem is just going to recur and worsen if you subject the tendon to the same stresses over time. Being too old, too heavy, and running too hard are just not positives for tendon health. The tendons get stiffer and shittier over time. Just as your eyes lose elasticity and you start to need reading glasses. Aging process is bs from top to bottom.