Mike Israetel - sage or egomaniac??

[Trabaho]

I like him. He's good. Funny. Character. Also does bjj. I don't agree with every single thing. Overal good.

 

[NoSmilez]

Correct me if I'm wrong - I know nothing about whatever "recent literature" you're referring to - but this is an old(er) school technique that even Kaz utilized for his "powerbuilding" style of training. In the great 1988 video (while he was prepping for his WSM return) where he's doing the bench seminar, he explains why he's not locking out and discusses how he trains bench and squat and he talks about doing what he calls "two-thirds" lifts, focusing on full lockouts when it's more powerlifting style (and powerlifting numbers, going super heavy) and doing partial reps when it's more bodybuilding style (and bodybuilding numbers, going light for more reps).

To be clear I don't think those big bodybuilders I posted this invented this stuff. I was just giving an example of bro reps. I think the big bodybuilders or powerlifters were doing stuff because it felt good but they didn't really know the rationale. A lot of it was bro science and stuff they picked up from other bros. They didn't know about stretch mediated hypertrophy or lengthen partials. I don't even think those terms were even coined until recently. Their rationale was to keep constant tension on the muscle, save the joints by not locking out and maintain high contraction(current science shows it isn't important as being muscle being stretched under load).

Exercise science as a field isn't really a good one. I was checking out a meta-analysis of studies featuring stretch mediated hypertrophy. That was the big circle jerk among the science based lifting community before the lengthen partials. The research done was on some kind of Japanese quail and chicken. They had human studies too but it's mainly done on calves and quads/hamstrings. The human studies had results that weren't that great. It showed some modest increases in some studies and no noticeable increases in others. They couldn't replicate the results from the animal model. I will admit I didn't check all the literature and experiment design. I just looked at the end points. They probably have newer studies now.

Lifting is always been weird. Trends come and go. I came up doing stronglifts/starting-strength after bodybuilding as a teenager. If I mention stronglifts nowadays people will go ewww. Israetel is one of the bigger exercise gurus in today's fitness industry. I think part of his appeal is that he has a doctorate and a decent speaker. More people are getting into lifting and the new crop of people are "nerdier". They gravitate towards science based lifting. In the past you sorta learned from the biggest person you know in the gym or another person who read more magazines than you. Nowadays all the people learn from youtube. There is a circlejerk about who is the best and blah blah.

 

[Koya]

He's got good and bad, but more good. His advice is generally pretty sound. Sorry partial guys but full ROM is where it's at.

Then he has some pretty dogmatic views on some things. Says barbell and dumbbells do everything better than kettlebells. Ever heard of kettlebell swings ? Turkish get up ? Yep they don't do it better.

It was just an example but you should listen to him with a "he's generally good but let's stay critical" mindset.

One thing is he's funny

 

[Koya]

They rip on each other. They have been throwing subtle shots at each other since 2019. I believe Israetel was the first one that started it publicly. Doucette is just paying him back.

No doucette started it for views back in the day. It's always doucette starting it

 

[SalvadorAllende]

In the V Shred tear down he is blatantly making fun of the guy. In the end the V shred dude is in great shape and Mike has used steroids. Make what you will of that.

There is a reason why everybody in the fitness YT hates V-Shred. He is everything wrong with the so called "fitness industry". He is basically a con artist.

Mike does openly talks about his steroid use and all the negative side of it. He also makes fun of his own genetics and his looks.

I do think his training advice is on point. I don't like his diet advice tho.

No doucette started it for views back in the day. It's always doucette starting it

I remember watching Doucette videos when he was an actual fitness channel. Now it is basically a reaction channel with an old man screaming at the camera. Too bad because his content was pretty good. His diet tips before the fucking cookbook were awesome.

 

[Highway99]

I did something just like Ronnie in that squatting video posted, except with zercher squats...using as fast a pace as I could muster. 5 sets 10-15 reps and 20-30 seconds rest got my legs to 28 inches at one point.

Though I admit, this particular way of training hasn't had the same effect on the rest of my body as it has had with my legs.

 

[Koya]

I remember watching Doucette videos when he was an actual fitness channel. Now it is basically a reaction channel with an old man screaming at the camera. Too bad because his content was pretty good. His diet tips before the fucking cookbook were awesome.

What you don't want a 150$ cookbook that tells you to put Stevia instead of sugar in your cookies ?

Jokes aside his advice is pretty shit if you're not a beginner. And he contradicts himself a lot. Training "harder than last time" every session doesn't work when you're advanced or even dare I sat intermediate.

Also his mainganing shtick has no definition and he keeps changing what it means.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

What you don't want a 150$ cookbook that tells you to put Stevia instead of sugar in your cookies ?

Jokes aside his advice is pretty shit if you're not a beginner. And he contradicts himself a lot. Training "harder than last time" every session doesn't work when you're advanced or even dare I sat intermediate.

Also his mainganing shtick has no definition and he keeps changing what it means.

And Gregs whole take on health is hypocritical.
He shits on fat people because being fat is bad for their health and he still abused steroids for years knowing the side effects. To make things worse he pushes unnecessary shit supplements.
The paternalistic approach rubs me in the wrong way.

To make things positive (because I don't want to be an angry online person) there are guys like Eric Janicki that post very good content and is (at least on camera) the nicest guy ever.

 

[Koya]

And Gregs whole take on health is hypocritical.
He shits on fat people because being fat is bad for their health and he still abused steroids for years knowing the side effects. To make things worse he pushes unnecessary shit supplements.
The paternalistic approach rubs me in the wrong way.

To make things positive (because I don't want to be an angry online person) there are guys like Eric Janicki that post very good content and is (at least on camera) the nicest guy ever.

Oh don't get me started on his turkesterone scam. Now he switched to ecdysterone because he says it's what "works" in the supplement not turkesterone. So you admit you were selling snake oil basically ? What a clown.

 

[KnightTemplar]

He's got good and bad, but more good. His advice is generally pretty sound. Sorry partial guys but full ROM is where it's at.

Then he has some pretty dogmatic views on some things. Says barbell and dumbbells do everything better than kettlebells. Ever heard of kettlebell swings ? Turkish get up ? Yep they don't do it better.

It was just an example but you should listen to him with a "he's generally good but let's stay critical" mindset.

One thing is he's funny

Yeah, I've got to agree with Dr Mike on this. During the Covid Lockdown, I bought myself some kettlebells, as the gyms were closed. I also bought Pavlov's Simple and Sinister book. A waste of time and money. Kettlebell swings were OK, if boring. But the the only benfit I got from Turkish get ups was the ability...to do Turkish get ups.

If I had that time over again, I would have bought myself a Pull Up/Dip Station and a Weight Vest. Then I would have made actual gains in strength and fitness.

 

[deadshot138]

Yeah, I've got to agree with Dr Mike on this. During the Covid Lockdown, I bought myself some kettlebells, as the gyms were closed. I also bought Pavlov's Simple and Sinister book. A waste of time and money. Kettlebell swings were OK, if boring. But the the only benfit I got from Turkish get ups was the ability...to do Turkish get ups.

If I had that time over again, I would have bought myself a Pull Up/Dip Station and a Weight Vest. Then I would have made actual gains in strength and fitness.

Some heavy ignorance right here. There's a floor press, windmill and static lunge in every rep of a Turkish get up. Were also likely doing the swings wrong or both movements not heavy enough. Sinister, with the 48kg bell for both exercises, is a motherfucker.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Some heavy ignorance right here. There's a floor press, windmill and static lunge in every rep of a Turkish get up. Were also likely doing the swings wrong or both movements not heavy enough. Sinister, with the 48kg bell for both exercises, is a motherfucker.

Swings were OK for low-impact cardio, but nothing special. TGU is a circus trick, nothing more. I got up to 32kg one handed Swings and 24kg on TGU's. It didn't transfer to lifting once the gyms finally reopened.

What the Hell effect my arse.

 

[Smato_rules]

Swings were OK for low-impact cardio, but nothing special. TGU is a circus trick, nothing more. I got up to 32kg one handed Swings and 24kg on TGU's. It didn't transfer to lifting once the gyms finally reopened.

What the Hell effect my arse.

Those are not impressive numbers for those lifts though, so I wouldn’t imagine much carryover to your lifts. Double kettlebell work, especially the press and front squat is brutal. And I do think movements like swings and tgu make me more athletic, while not really influencing my raw lifting numbers. To each their own.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Those are not impressive numbers for those lifts though, so I wouldn’t imagine much carryover to your lifts. Double kettlebell work, especially the press and front squat is brutal. And I do think movements like swings and tgu make me more athletic, while not really influencing my raw lifting numbers. To each their own.

YMMV. I found kettlebell work to be to little reward for the effort put in.

 

[Poon Goon]

Then he has some pretty dogmatic views on some things. Says barbell and dumbbells do everything better than kettlebells. Ever heard of kettlebell swings ? Turkish get up ? Yep they don't do it better.

But the the only benfit I got from Turkish get ups was the ability...to do Turkish get ups.

Those are not impressive numbers for those lifts though, so I wouldn’t imagine much carryover to your lifts.

I think that what gets lost in this conversation is the fact that he is talking about hypertrophy, not athleticism, and not strength gain. I would assume that he is right that KB swings and TGUs aren't really great for hypertrophy or assistance for barbell lifts.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I think that what gets lost in this conversation is the fact that he is talking about hypertrophy, not athleticism, and not strength gain. I would assume that he is right that KB swings and TGUs aren't really great for hypertrophy or assistance for barbell lifts.

He's also a BJJ athlete and said Turkish get ups had no carry over to that. I do agree with you he's focussed more on hypertrophy than anything else.

 

[deadshot138]

He's also a BJJ athlete and said Turkish get ups had no carry over to that. I do agree with you he's focussed more on hypertrophy than anything else.

A loaded get up has no carry over to BJJ



There's even a Turkish get up side control escape. I'm assuming he just gets by being roided out of his mind and knows little about the sport. Got his belt from paying thousands for private lessons.

 

[KnightTemplar]

A loaded get up has no carry over to BJJ



There's even a Turkish get up side control escape. I'm assuming he just gets by being roided out of his mind and knows little about the sport. Got his belt from paying thousands for private lessons.

Show us on the special doll where Dr Mike touched you.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

As I said about MrMike in a previous post I absolutely respect him, but his emphasis is bodybuilding and powerlifting.

As this IG clip explains, he's absolutely wrong about the turkish get-up.



Its a great functional full-body exercise, and I doubt most would understand how great it is if they do 10 reps with the weight being 1/8th of their total bodyweight.

 

[KnightTemplar]

As I said about MrMike in a previous post I absolutely respect him, but his emphasis is bodybuilding and powerlifting.

As this IG clip explains, he's absolutely wrong about the turkish get-up.



Its a great functional full-body exercise, and I doubt most would understand how great it is if they do 10 reps with the weight being 1/8th of their total bodyweight.

When I was training kettlebells full time - because the gyms were closed - I got up to 8 reps each side with 24kg. Which was just under 1/4 my bodyweight. I got zero carryover to anything else.

Kettlebells will always be inferior to Barbells when it comes to developing maximum strength and power. And TGU's aren't even one of the better KB exercises. KB Clean and Press is much more effective in developing strength, and works shoulder mobility at the same time.

Training time is finite. I'm not going to spend time on TGU's when I can be Squatting, Benching and Deadlifting.