Michael Phelps physical advantage is GREAT, but in MMA (Jones) is not fair. WHAT!?

[ovbious]

It wasn't brought up because he wasn't that much bigger than the top 5 guys in his best styles, like Ryan Lochte or Laszlo Cseh. Maybe Thiago Pereira (silver medalist in London and perenial top 5 in 400m medley), who is kinda small for the sport nowadays.

But Ian Thorpe suffered the same type of badmouthing Jones does, because he was clearly much bigger than all other swimmers in 2000.

 

[Got GOAT]

btw I'm not sure what universe you live in where Weidman's accomplishments aren't routinely and inanely discredited

Speaking of Weidman and race, this was posted recently. I laughed and screen shotted it for a friend. This is the kind of shit that gets said about him, and not just here on Sherdog.

 

[bawzz]

There's weight classes in swimming ?

 

[KR811**]

No, Bernard told Calzaghe that to his face. He's been one of the most vocal racists in boxing for years, same with Floyd (and his father). This is well known. Just because a bunch of tards on YouTube are making racist comments about videos doesn't mean shit, they're not pro boxers, and they're not well known and successful established in the sport. Mayweather and B-Hop are two all-time greats.

I think the opinions of thousands and the dynamics of American influence me more than 2 boxers. What they said or may have said were shitty but it pales to what fans and other bigots say daily.

 

[Got GOAT]

Weidman is roughly the same size as Schaub and I've heard no use Weidman's size as a discrediting point. Also I never hear anyone saying Weidman must move up because he's too big and it's not fair for other fighters.

However it's a problem when Jones is too tall and Mighty Mouse is too small.

I think the opinions of thousands and the dynamics of American influence me more than 2 boxers. What they said or may have said were shitty but it pales to what fans and other bigots say daily.

My point is, there are racists everywhere. There are plenty of Asian people that are racist too against other races. The guy I replied to acted like it was only when black athletes do well in "White sports", but it's that way when white people do well in "Black sports" too, and I named boxing specifically.

As for Weidman, he's been criticized for a while now about his size, even though him and Anderson are the same size (and Rockhold is even bigger than Weidman). After he fought Lyoto people were bitching and trying to say that he only beat him because he was so much bigger. Well, no, he beat him because he's the better fighter. He constantly cut the cage off and walked him down, not giving Lyoto any space to get comfortable and work.

 

[faustian]

Weidman is roughly the same size as Schaub and I've heard no use Weidman's size as a discrediting point.

Weidman is 6'2" with a 78 in reach. Anderson Silva is 6'2" with a 77.5 in reach. Meanwhile LHW Jon Jones has the greatest reach in the entire UFC, nearly 2 inches longer than 7 foot HW K-1 champ Semmy Schilt. Do I really need to explain why Weidman doesn't catch the same "size criticism" that Jones does?

Also I never hear anyone saying Weidman must move up because he's too big and it's not fair for other fighters.

No, it's even worse with Weidman. People don't suggest Weidman should move up because Weidman's haters don't even acknowledge that he's superior to the rest of his division's fighters, even though he's the two time defending champ with an undefeated record on a 3 fight win streak (12 overall) vs two of the greatest fighters in MMA history. No, Weidman's haters insist that he's an illegitimate champ, a circumstance of repeated flukes.

However it's a problem when Jones is too tall and Mighty Mouse is too small.

lol again, it can't just be that most people don't like watching manlets fight, it has to be about race. lmao

 

[garwoc]

Whatever bad thing Jones has done has been matched with other fighters.

For example, many sherdoggers hate Jones or Mayweather (in boxing) for being cocky but love McGregor or Sonnen for doing the same. This crap happens far too often to not be a mere coincidence.

Sonnen and Conner have their fair share of haters as well.

Jones is just a dominant champion so people feel the need to discredit him where they can. The same happened with Anderson, Fedor and GSP, and will continue to happen with every dominant champion.

 

[kflo]

Phelps is the best ever in his sport, there's no arguably. He isn't just an Olympian, he isn't just a medalist, he isn't just a gold medalist, he's the most successful Olympic athlete to ever live. He has literally twice the amount of gold medals that the 2nd most successful Olympic athlete of all time won. With Jones, there is no such difference. Many people, myself included, would still put a couple different fighters over him GOAT status (though in his division he is the GOAT). It's about as lame as comparing Jones to Ali just because they're both black and successful athletes.

i think you are misinterpreting the actual point of this thread.

phelps is a swimmer, and arguably the best ever in his sport. his sport affords the most medal opportunities so it's really silly to point to that as something that separates him as an athlete from all other olympians. he has the most medals.

jones is a fighter. arguably the best ever at his sport, even if there are legit arguments for others above him.

this thread is not about whether jones is above phelps.

 

[Got GOAT]

i think you are misinterpreting the actual point of this thread.

I read the OP, so no, I'm not misinterpreting it. He's still making a comparison directly to Michael Phelps. It's a really stupid thing to do, regardless of his supposed point with their physical gifts.

phelps is a swimmer, and arguably the best ever in his sport. his sport affords the most medal opportunities so it's really silly to point to that as something that separates him as an athlete from all other olympians. he has the most medals.

He's the most successful Olympian of all time, yes. It isn't just his sport, it's him being the best (not arguably) at what he does.

jones is a fighter. arguably the best ever at his sport, even if there are legit arguments for others above him.

I never disagreed. But again, there's no "arguably" with Phelps.

 

[sohocanaan22]

Visit the pro boxing scene sometime. There are more racist black fighters than there are white.

Boxing? I didn't mention boxing, chief. It's not an example of what I'm talking about. Boxing has probably been fully integrated longer than any other pro American sport.

You might want to think about why you jumped over the facts and thrust of the post to the conclusion of guilt for something about which you CLEARLY have a passionate and detailed complaint.

But I should be clear, I'm only talking about your mistaken read of the post. Please don't get the impression that your gripe is anything but a dingle-berry on the ass of society.

 

[kflo]

I read the OP, so no, I'm not misinterpreting it. He's still making a comparison directly to Michael Phelps. It's a really stupid thing to do, regardless of his supposed point with their physical gifts.

how so? the main point is about physical gifts.

He's the most successful Olympian of all time, yes. It isn't just his sport, it's him being the best (not arguably) at what he does.

not sure what you mean it isn't just his sport.

I never disagreed. But again, there's no "arguably" with Phelps.

probably.

 

[RJ43]

It is what it is. I believe that Jones has the perfect build for fighting, and he has learned to use it exceptionally well. He's got both sides of the coin and that's why he is great. I don't think it's discredit to say he wins because of his body, it's true, but it's not the whole point.

No one can deny Jones wins because of his size, but his size does not automatically equal victory. It's a tool he's been given and he uses it well.

 

[RJ43]

No, it's even worse with Weidman. People don't suggest Weidman should move up because Weidman's haters don't even acknowledge that he's superior to the rest of his division's fighters, even though he's the two time defending champ with an undefeated record on a 3 fight win streak (12 overall) vs two of the greatest fighters in MMA history. No, Weidman's haters insist that he's an illegitimate champ, a circumstance of repeated flukes.

They don't acknowledge how good he is because he doesn't pass the eye test. He doesn't look fast, explosive, strong, or uniquely talented when he fights...yet he's always doing the right thing and beating guys who do appear to be faster, stronger, more talented etc....

When that happens people look for rationale to justify what they are seeing (or not seeing). That's why people want to say Anderson was too old, Munoz sucked, Machida could win etc....

To be honest I found myself rationalizing that way as well, but when Weidman beat Machida it put any doubts to rest for me. The guy may not look like the fastest, strongest etc...but he is clearly the best fighter at MW and an exceptional talent. He's probably the most efficient fighter in the UFC and will hold that belt for a very long time.

 

[dmwalking]

The fact that after all these years people are still debating this makes me laugh.

 

[Son of Sonnen]

I have never said it was unfair. I have however gotten into arguments with people that deny its an advantage he has over virtually everyone he has faced other than Gus.

 

[jeremyemilio]

This is a slippery slope to going down Jimmy The Greek territory.

Also, swimming doesn't have weightclasses. So it is not as if Phelps is cutting weight to take on smaller swimmers. That would be the difference. Not that hard to understand.

Ummm... yeah... all the small swimmers need to swim in the same pool with him.

Weight classes don't make a reach advantage MORE advantageous... they make it LESS advantageous, by insuring that the taller you are for a given weight class the more lanky you are for the same weight class.

 

[jeremyemilio]

I read the OP, so no, I'm not misinterpreting it. He's still making a comparison directly to Michael Phelps. It's a really stupid thing to do, regardless of his supposed point with their physical gifts.


He's the most successful Olympian of all time, yes. It isn't just his sport, it's him being the best (not arguably) at what he does.



I never disagreed. But again, there's no "arguably" with Phelps.

You're drunk. He the best swimmer in the world. That's all. The fact that he can swim with a team, or swim on his back, or swim with his arms out to the side, or swim with them out in front, or swim for 100 meters, or 200 meters, etc, doesn't make him the most successful Olympian of all time. It just makes him a really great swimmer.

What Karelin did, or Carl Lewis, or Usain Bolt, is more impressive than anything that Phelps has done.

But by your reasoning, none of those guys even make the top 20 list for most successful summer Olympians. Carl Lewis is the closest at number 22.

... behind 8 gymnasts, 7 swimmers, 1 fencer, 1 distance runner, 1 canoeist, and 1 shooter.

You're seriously going to sit there and tell me that 75% of the best athletes ever to compete in the Olympic games were swimmers and gymnasts?

Give your head a shake.

 

[HDKIKR]

It's days like these that I wonder why I even Sherdog...

 

[Lead]

I laugh when people complain about that. How can you get mad that a guy is born with great physical attributes for fighting and fights? That's the logical thing to do. You know haters are running out of reasons when it becomes "he is too perfect that it's unfair for the division"

 

[SnowBlynd]

This is a slippery slope to going down Jimmy The Greek territory.

Also, swimming doesn't have weightclasses. So it is not as if Phelps is cutting weight to take on smaller swimmers. That would be the difference. Not that hard to understand.

Well said