Mayweather Jr. vs. Alvarez

[Seano]

Yeah he did, firstly by Hagler, one of the best middleweights of all time.

Ermm no it's not. Hearns has wins over guys like Duran, Gazo, Roldan and two very close fights with Sugar Ray Leonard. Guys like Cotto and Hatton fell way short when they stepped up to the elite level. The guys we are talking about here all hung with each other.

I'm still not hearing how this is better than what Corrales did pre Floyd.

Cotto and Hatton fell short at the elite level? lol OK. Its true they never lost to any true greats like Bobby Boogaloo Watts and Willie the Worm Monroe and didn't beat other greats like Alan Minter but they were solid fighters. No doubt about that.

If Floyd isn't going to get credit for beating a great like Marquez then Hagler sure isn't getting credit for the same situation with Hearns and Duran.

 

[The President]

Its been pointed out to you multiple times that that isn't what we're talking about and you know it.

We're talking about who Corrales was when Floyd fought him and who Hearns was when Leonard fought him, not who they became over the rest of their careers.

What happened when Leonard fought a more experienced Hearns in the rematch? Leonard got dropped twice and got a gift draw.

Erm no, that's not how it works. You don't just look at a fighter before their first loss when ranking a win, that's nonsensical. You can't rank Corralles as high as Hearns because they were both unbeaten with similar opposition before they lost. Why are you ignoring what they did after their respective losses?

They both lost to great fighters, the difference is that one of them went on to beat other great fighters, the other didn't. That's why one win is much better than the other. You don't just stop looking at Hearns career after the Leonard loss. His whole career reflects on that victory, it shows what he was capable of, what he did to other great fighters.

yeah that's what happens when two great fighters fight each other, see Leonard and Duran. You are going to pick up losses when you are fighting all times greats over and over again, especially in rematches.

 

[The Batkilt]

I'm still not hearing how this is better than what Corrales did pre Floyd.

Cotto and Hatton fell short at the elite level? lol OK. Its true they never lost to any true greats like Bobby Boogaloo Watts and Willie the Worm Monroe and didn't beat other greats like Alan Minter but they were solid fighters. No doubt about that.

If Floyd isn't going to get credit for beating a great like Marquez then Hagler sure isn't getting credit for the same situation with Hearns and Duran.

He beat an old Kostya Tszyu; a blown up Jos

 

[The President]

I'm still not hearing how this is better than what Corrales did pre Floyd.

Cotto and Hatton fell short at the elite level? lol OK. Its true they never lost to any true greats like Bobby Boogaloo Watts and Willie the Worm Monroe and didn't beat other greats like Alan Minter but they were solid fighters. No doubt about that.

If Floyd isn't going to get credit for beating a great like Marquez then Hagler sure isn't getting credit for the same situation with Hearns and Duran.

What are you talking about? You don't just stop looking at someones career the instant they lose to a fighter. Your logical here is completely bemusing, I'm not sure if you are being serious.

Tell me how Cotto and Hatton never fell short at the elite level? The two true elite fighters they fought beat them handily. So yeah, lol OK.

Try reading more, I said Marquez was Floyd's best win, even though he was in terrible condition. That's credit. I said it's on par with the Duran victory. However a win over Hagler is the better win, no doubt about it.

 

[Seano]

Erm no, that's not how it works..

Yes it is, because thats what we've been talking about the whole time. Don't try to change the conversation because your argument fell flat.

Your entire argument is based on your personal bias and has no basis in fact at all. You're simply assuming Hearns accomplished more pre Leonard than Corrales did pre Floyd because you're looking at their entire career. I already agreed Hearns was the better all time fighter many pages ago.

 

[The President]

Yes it is, because thats what we've been talking about the whole time. Don't try to change the conversation because your argument fell flat.

Your entire argument is based on your personal bias and has no basis in fact at all. You're simply assuming Hearns accomplished more pre Leonard than Corrales did pre Floyd because you're looking at their entire career. I already agreed Hearns was the better all time fighter many pages ago.

No we weren't at all, go and quote me where I said anything of the sort. This entire argument is about who has the better victories. My argument was that Hearns is a better victory than the likes of Corrales because he accomplished a lot more in his career and defeated other great fighters. Please tell me at what point I narrowed the boundaries to "victories before the Leonard fight"

I said that Corralles hadn't accomplished anything before the Floyd fight, which is true. Neither had Hearns, but notice how I said "After that fight he went on to get knocked out by Casamayor." That's talking about after the fight, as a point of how Hearns had accomplished much more after their respective losses, which is why I made this point to Consortium:

"Corralles didn't go on to do much at all after the loss to Mayweather though, Hearns did. You could say Corralles and Hearns were like for like in the respective fights, but it was after their first losses that Hearns went on to prove he was a great fighter."

So please, tell me where I have changed anything to suit my self? You've just made your self look very silly here. As usual you were replying selectively and ignoring certain parts of the post, it's come back to bite you in the arse.

Then what are you talking about, I'm talking about the better win. Hearns was the better win, not just because I think his unbeaten run was better, but because he was simply better. You're one confused guy, take a nap.

 

[Seano]

He beat an old Kostya Tszyu; a blown up Jos

 

[The Batkilt]

I can cheapen the resume of any fighter in history like that.

It's not cheapening his r

 

[consortium11]

Corralles didn't go on to do much at all after the loss to Mayweather though, Hearns did. You could say Corralles and Hearns were like for like in the respective fights, but it was after their first losses that Hearns went on to prove he was a great fighter. Corralles went on to prove he was a very good fighter, but as great as the guys were talking about here? I'm not so sure. I do still think that the win was pumped up by the fact that Corralles was such a big puncher and an intimidating force (Which isn't a bad thing).

Corralles also got KO'd by Castillo in the rematch. I don't think I'm underplaying Floyd's career at all, I'm one of his biggest supporters, I just don't class a win over Corralles as a better win that Hearns, Hagler, Duran or Benitez.

I'm somewhat reluctant to put much emphasis on the second Castillo bout. Corrales near killed himself to make weight, Castillo didn't bother and unsurprisingly, Castillo was bigger, stronger, fresher and more powerful. Castillo tried the trick again for the rubber match and Corrales just said screw it and cancel the bout. Likewise, I think a run of Casamayor, Feitas and Castillo holds up as a good a set as wins as virtually anyone in boxing history has had back to back.

 

[WatchMeDoMe**]

Of course Hearns is a level or two above Coralles. I don't think that's debatable. But its the fact that SRL had a seriously tough time with Hearns, and Floyd put on a performance against Chico that I would describe as boxing's version of a perfect game that give plausibility to the assertion that Floyd's win over Corrales was a better win that Ray's win over Hearns.

 

[farfan]

people seem to forget that that corrales was facing jail time for domestic abuse when he fought floyd .literally one week before the fight he was working out a guilty plea deal and knew for a fact that he was going to jail for at least 2 years .

but hey, there is no way that situation could have affected his performance , right ?

 

[The President]

Of course Hearns is a level or two above Coralles. I don't think that's debatable. But its the fact that SRL had a seriously tough time with Hearns, and Floyd put on a performance against Chico that I would describe as boxing's version of a perfect game that give plausibility to the assertion that Floyd's win over Corrales was a better win that Ray's win over Hearns.

A close fight is always going to happen between two of the best welterweights of all time. Sugar Ray Leonard knocked Hearns out, that is an awesome achievement. Corralles is not the same class of fighter as Hearns, that is what it comes down to.

Floyd would have had a very tough time with both Hearns and Leonard, he doesn't beat either of them like he did Chico, because they are much better fighters.

 

[WatchMeDoMe**]

people seem to forget that that corrales was facing jail time for domestic abuse when he fought floyd .literally one week before the fight he was working out a guilty plea deal and knew for a fact that he was going to jail for at least 2 years .

but hey, there is no way that situation could have affected his performance , right ?

Please, dude. Floyd dealt with and continues to deal with legal issues his whole career. Not a factor, sorry. These are professionals.

 

[WatchMeDoMe**]

A close fight is always going to happen between two of the best welterweights of all time. Sugar Ray Leonard knocked Hearns out, that is an awesome achievement. Corralles is not the same class of fighter as Hearns, that is what it comes down to.

Floyd would have had a very tough time with both Hearns and Leonard, he doesn't beat either of them like he did Chico, because they are much better fighters.

Floyd-Corralles also took place at 130 while SRL-Hearns was at 147. A weight class and a half apart. Floyd is NOT a WW. He fights there because of the money. When people talk about how Floyd would fair against the four horsemen of the 80s, only a matchup with Duran probably ever would have occurred anyway, the other 3 are just much bigger

 

[Seano]

people seem to forget that that corrales was facing jail time for domestic abuse when he fought floyd .literally one week before the fight he was working out a guilty plea deal and knew for a fact that he was going to jail for at least 2 years .

but hey, there is no way that situation could have affected his performance , right ?

Yes and Duran really had to shit when he lost to Leonard so that doesn't count either. With clear bowels, he beat Leonard.

 

[The Batkilt]

Yes and Duran really had to shit when he lost to Leonard so that doesn't count either. With clear bowels, he beat Leonard.

The bowel problems could be true, but Freddie Brown was said to have admitted before he died that he made up the "stomach problems" as he wasn't happy that Ray Arcel made no effort to defend Duran for quitting.

There was also a bit of cynicism that his stomach was the issue. Sure, he went to the hospital later that night - but only after going back to his hotel to party for several hours.

It's quite possible that his stomach was giving him problems; he cut too much weight in too short a period of time, then gorged. It's also just as possible that his machismo led to him making the decision to walk away from Leonard due to his antics, out of instinct and/or emotion.

 

[Sunfish]

Hearns at welter is an ATG win seano, surely we don't debate that.

I don't care who crapped their pants or did whatever. Hearns, Hagler and Duran and who are we comparing against.

Floyd should fight Da Sex.

 

[farfan]

Yes and Duran really had to shit when he lost to Leonard so that doesn't count either. With clear bowels, he beat Leonard.

the bowel movement was probably caused by leonard humiliating him and boxing his ears off
Stress, Anxiety and fear can cause bowel problems .

incidentally, does anyone have the link to that article about boxers and mma fighters shitting themselves during fights ?

EDIt: found it http://fightlinker.com/a-short-history-of-fighters-crapping-their-pants/

 

[Sunfish]

So can laxatives.

 

[farfan]

So can laxatives.