Media Max Kellerman on ESPN: Manny Pacquiao has a case for the best pound-for-pound fighter ever

[nac386]

So eating a power punch is a talent now? I think i heard it all hahah.

Punch resistance is absolutely a talent. If Keith had it, he wouldn’t have been on the mat in round 1 against a 40 year old, and he would not have spit out his mouth guard and ran from the 40 year old when he got rocked to the body.

But I was referring to the fact that as soon as Keith fought a real legend like Pacquiao it suddenly became clear that Keith is several levels below him. Even a 40 year old Pacquiao was faster, stronger, and had better punch resistance.

 

[Milton_Gracie]

Why can't you guys have a civil convo? Its like you wont even be open to other opinions. Watch it with an open mind it was a flash knockdown or off balance shot. Thurman popped right back up.

Also I just gave you the clear cut rounds I gave to Manny. Round 1, Round 5 and Round 10, Thurman basically put it on Manny and was going in on Pacs body. He slowed Pac down with a body barrage and Pac was on the ropes. if Thurman never attacked the body Pac wouldn't have slowed down.

Watch Pac Vs Lucas and Broner he didnt slow down or look sluggish because none of those guys attacked his body. Thurman got zero credit for those body attacks.Thats what slowed Pac down big time. But nobody seems to recognize it they just say Pac showed his age, how about Thurman slowed him down with the body attack

Open your mind man, be fair for a change watch the fight again

I’m being very civil with you.

Again, the fight went absolutely nothing like you said. Thurman clearly lost.

I’ll accept the idea that Pac slowed down because of Thurman’s body shots. However, we all know that you choose to ignore Pac worked Thurman’s body since round 1. You also would rather spread conspiracy theories about Pac’s granite PED chin, rather than acknowledge his body work taking the mustard out of Keith’s power shots.

You only want to see it one way. Only look at it as an LDBC fan but get sensitive when people look at it objectively.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I agree, Cotto was great at that point in his career. But in another thread, right now, somebody is saying Cotto was "old" when he fought Pacquiao, even though he was 2 years younger and had great things ahead of him. It's a level of scrutiny that goes so far beyond what anybody from the past gets.

They are also calling Barrera old, even though Barrera was a big favorite and went on to beat the undefeated Prince Naseem several years after Pacquiao gave him his beatings.



My point by bringing up the size of Ali's opponents is not to diminish the wins, it's just to highlight the fact that when comparing p4p fighters with great resumes it's important to note that one guy fought in 8 weight classes, and the other guy was one of the bigger guys in the only weight class he ever fought in. Joe Frazier is a great fighter no matter what he weighed. But Ali, due to no fault of his own, was 4 inches taller, 10 pounds heavier, and had 7 inches of reach on the guy.



I'm not even 100% convinced that I think Pac should rank higher than Ali. I lean a bit in that direction, but I certainly wouldn't be the least bit bothered by seeing Pacquiao below Ali on any list. I think my main point here is that when we evaluate a modern fighter like Pacquiao with the same lack of scrutiny as some legendary fighters, a guy like Pacquiao starts stacking up really well.

My personal opinion is that we nitpick modern fighters to death, but we give legendary fighters the benefit of the doubt. I think some people don't want legendary fighters to be surpassed by modern legends, because legends of he past are almost mythicized at times. They are almost cemented in those top 10 p4p spots, no matter what.

Barrera beat up the Prince a few years before fighting Pac but other than that I agree with your posts completely. I find some boxing fans tout the accomplishments of fighters generations ago over current fighters to try and validate themselves more than anything. They're basically trying to say that they're real fans because they've been following boxing for decades and not just the fighters today. Basically "Hipster" fans.

 

[nac386]

Barrera beat up the Prince a few years before fighting Pac but other than that I agree with your posts completely. I find some boxing fans tout the accomplishments of fighters generations ago over current fighters to try and validate themselves more than anything. They're basically trying to say that they're real fans because they've been following boxing for decades and not just the fighters today. Basically "Hipster" fans.

Good call, I misremembered the order.

But now I'm looking at Barrera's record. He was on an 8 fight win streak when he got demolished by Pacquiao, with four of those wins being over Prince Hamed, Johnny Tapia, Eric Morales, and Kevin Kelley. Then he loses to Pacquaio. Then he wins his next 6 fights.

It's just absurd to say Barrera was some shot fighter, he was still the 2nd best fighter in the world at that weight. Second to Pacquiao.

 

[TidWell]

Good call, I misremembered the order.

But now I'm looking at Barrera's record. He was on an 8 fight win streak when he got demolished by Pacquiao, with four of those wins being over Prince Hamed, Johnny Tapia, Eric Morales, and Kevin Kelley. Then he loses to Pacquaio. Then he wins his next 6 fights.

It's just absurd to say Barrera was some shot fighter, he was still the 2nd best fighter in the world at that weight. Second to Pacquiao.

I remember that fight with Barrera, hbo was basically saying during the pre fight build up that barrera wasnt able to have a good camp. They said his camp had a fire and that someone exposed to the media he had a metal plate in his head and he was distracted going into the fight with Pac.

 

[nac386]

I remember that fight with Barrera, hbo was basically saying during the pre fight build up that barrera wasnt able to have a good camp. They said his camp had a fire and that someone exposed to the media he had a metal plate in his head and he was distracted going into the fight with Pac.

I remember going into the fight with Mathysse, some troll on an internet forum was convinced Pacquiao had never fought such a brutal puncher and was going to get knocked out. Then Pacquiao knocked him out.

Then in the lead up to the Thurman fight, the same doofus was convinced Pacquiao had never fought a puncher like Thurman, and was going to get knocked out. Then Pacquiao knocked him down and slapped him around the ring forcing him to spit out his mouthguard and run.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Good call, I misremembered the order.

But now I'm looking at Barrera's record. He was on an 8 fight win streak when he got demolished by Pacquiao, with four of those wins being over Prince Hamed, Johnny Tapia, Eric Morales, and Kevin Kelley. Then he loses to Pacquaio. Then he wins his next 6 fights.

It's just absurd to say Barrera was some shot fighter, he was still the 2nd best fighter in the world at that weight. Second to Pacquiao.

Anyone that says that is just trolling at this point, his wars with the 3 amigos were legendary. Would have loved to seen Pac go against the Prince back then but unfortunately Marco ruined him.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Only image that matters in that fight:

AND NEW WBA Welterweight Champion of the World!!

 

[nac386]

You dont remember the pre fight with marco barrera? Hbo said all those things they said he was long in the tooth, that pac was younger. Also his training camp in big bear had a fire and someone leaked he had a metal plate in his head they wondered if he was hundred percent focused.

Lol. I also heard Barrera misplaced his keys that morning, and had the sun in his eyes during the fight.

Or maybe Barrera was a 29 year old p4p great on an 8 fight win streak who got beat by a better fighter.

Then in the rematch pac couldnt hurt barrera and then hbo said this was the end of the road for manny that he was already slowing down. Then he goes up in weight and destroys david diaz and then instead of a natural decline he was showing in the barrera rematch he starts getting faster, stronger and is breaking bones and eating punches of bigger men.

^ Steroid accusation #3,504 from Tidwell.

 

[TidWell]

Lol. I also heard Barrera misplaced his keys that morning, and had the sun in his eyes during the fight.

Or maybe Barrera was a 29 year old p4p great on an 8 fight win streak who got beat by a better fighter.
.

Hey you need to tell that to HBO, they brought up all those things. They were making it out like Barrera was already passing the torch.

I forgot that Barrera even dropped Pacman in the first round! But I miss HBO especially Larry Merchant he sure knew how to introduce the back stories of fighters he had his own style.

 

[chiefwiggum]

I've never seen a list with anyone but SRR at the top. Why is SRR the consensus number 1 All Time Great?

Because Despite the camera never capturing his prime people take the legends about art from old men and rank him on fights hardly anyone has seen.

 

[mozfonky]

Because Despite the camera never capturing his prime people take the legends about art from old men and rank him on fights hardly anyone has seen.

naw, what footage we do have is holy for a boxing fan, i just re-watched the hbo special on him, an hour long document which stated that he had 80 some ammie fights with a kayo record (not necessarily common for american ammies) had a 90 some winning streak before losing, won the welter title, moved up to middleweight, won the lamotta fight and the title, lost to turpin, came back to win the rematch, retired after the maxim fight (which he was winning easily until the heat got him) came back after a couple years, lost in his second comeback fight, was written off by everyone, even his own trainer, beat bobo olsen for the title, then went on to win and lose the title another couple times beating and losing to younger bigger men. that's remarkable, has anyone today done that much? gotten up to off the canvas to win multiple times? beat a man who previously beat him? beaten a man no one thought he'd beat? done things no one thought he could do? there is a reason he is remembered as special, and it's not just the highlights, or the hints of the missing films from his prime, the guy was special.

 

[1mic]

Punch resistance is absolutely a talent. If Keith had it, he wouldn’t have been on the mat in round 1 against a 40 year old, and he would not have spit out his mouth guard and ran from the 40 year old when he got rocked to the body.

But I was referring to the fact that as soon as Keith fought a real legend like Pacquiao it suddenly became clear that Keith is several levels below him. Even a 40 year old Pacquiao was faster, stronger, and had better punch resistance.

Man I was a keef fan, I was really disappointed when he fought porter, having barely won. After watching pac and floyd fight, the latest gen leaves a lot to be desired. We'll see how crawford and spence stack up. with spence being 5'10, I can see him moving up to middle and even SMW.

 

[benebox]

Talking about the Pac Barrera rivally. I was surprised by how close Berrera rematch was. I think I had it 7-5 Pac but Berrera performed really well that night.

 

[ssx]

I’m not sure why it’s so hard for people to understand what Max is saying. Pacquiao is a guy who turned pro at 106lbs. His actual ideal fighting weight is probably around Featherweight/Jr Lightweight. He is past 40yrs old and beating welterweights who are naturally 3-4 weight classes bigger than him. That’s essentially Pernell Whitaker moving up and competing/beating Roy Jones or James Toney. Or Aaron Pryor jumping up and beating Marvin Hagler or Michael Spinks. I don’t think anyone would give them a chance in hell of pulling that off. Is he the best of all time at one particular weight? No. But could anyone else jump up that much weight classes and beat the top guys? I don’t think so. What he has done and continues to do is nothing short of incredible.

 

[HelpYouFall]

Tidwell, The Boy Who Cried Pac

 

[Jonny Ninja]

His biggest accomplishments are becoming world champion in both his teens and his 40s, and winning titles in 8 divisions

Both of which I think (I could be wrong) are achievements exclusive to him in the history of boxing

I never knew that first one. And what is really impressive about his last title is he hasn’t beaten and easy touch for a title. He’s beaten a long standing, unbeaten champion in one of boxing’s most stacked division.
I’ve been calling for him to quit since he fought floyd but he clearly has more to give. He’s top 5 atg for me, right alongside mayweather imo. He may have lost a few fights but his achievements in his career are unmatched

 

[burningspear]

 

[Milton_Gracie]

I remember that fight with Barrera, hbo was basically saying during the pre fight build up that barrera wasnt able to have a good camp. They said his camp had a fire and that someone exposed to the media he had a metal plate in his head and he was distracted going into the fight with Pac.

I also heard Pac had a training camp for the Floyd fight too. They couldn’t spar, had to send all the sparring partners home and Roach actually wanted to postpone the fight.

Meanwhile, Thurman had a great training camp for Pac. It was so great, he celebrated a few hours before the fight with a pizza party

 

[burningspear]

I love Barrera but Pac was all wrong for him, he's all wrong for most tbh.