Massage or Chiropractor?

[Lame]

like i said it amounts to good physical therapy and i don't know how people can say thats bad for you

 

[D Train]

Hey Bucketbot, you gotta' relax man. I'm willing to bet you've never even tried one out. I went last month because I had been having a lot of soreness in my neck. I couldn't turn my head without pain. I definately couldn't "pop" my neck it was so tight. My chiro worked that knot out and adjusted my neck and the relief was instantaneous and lasting. Don't tell me I felt better because some told me I should. That's just plain insulting.

 

[batman69]

Really...they "do wonders"?

What wonders do they do...you say that your spine is not alligned. Do you have scoliosis?

I am guessing you do not. Instead your chiro told you that your spine what out of line, told you that he did some things to "fix" your back...

Did he do any good. Most likely not. Did he do anything that would benefit you anymore than simple stretching and proper body mechanics...again most likely not.

You simply felt a little different/better because essentially he TOLD you that be made you better. Nothing more and nothing less.

And let me let you in on another little secret. It is impossible to "reallign" a spine with hand movements/manipulates. To reallign your spine you would require some form of corrective surgery, and again unless you have scoliosis this is not needed...

So again before you go telling people that a "practitioner" can do wonders...do a little research 1st

see, this is where i get a little annoyed. so you're saying that the work the chiropractor does on me is bullshit, and doesn't help. you say i feel better only because he tells me a i feel better? hmmm, oh yeah, i forgot i have the ability to tell when i feel better and when i don't.

i agree that if my chiro was to tell me he was going to "fix my nervous system.". i'd split and wouldn't go back. as far as the spine thing, i can remeber getting sent to a chiropractor when i was a teen, them talking about how my spine being out of whack was fucking up a lot of things and walking away with the getting conned feeling.

now as far as my current chiro, i visit him after hard training sessions, tournaments or when i been training too much when just stretching or yoga are not alleviating the out of whack feeling in mostly my hips, elbows, and neck where i have the most problems.

to give a more detailed example, while getting ready for a tournament, i got stubborn on tapping to an armbar that i thought wasn't there. i misjudged it with the resulting crunching and popping that comes with such stupidity. after ice, ibuprfin, and elevation for days i was still unable to move my arm fluidly as i would like and it really affected my training. i went in and saw my guy asking him what he thought, since i had an appointment with him and hadn't had the chance to call kaiser yet. he felt around in my arm explained what i had done. adjusted my arm, and i walked out of there able to move my arm freely. i went back to training the next day with no pain or problem.

was it a miracle? not even close. do i know the science behind it? not even close. did i get to go back to training? yes and i walked away with a gold medal from the tournament.

on the other side, when i dislocated a rib and as a last ditch effort went to him to see what he would say. he sent me home saying that there was nothing i could do and to rest it for at least 6 weeks.

that's my take on the whole thing from my perspective, and i can't speak for anyone else but my chiro rocks.

 

[georgejjr]

Be careful about letting them do neck manipulation though - there have been several cases where people have had a stroke afterwards (there's a class action lawsuit against chiropractors in Canada because of that).

 

[Bosozoku]

Dude i could not agree more!

People just take what chiropractors say at face value and do not fact checking what so ever. A chiropractor cannot "fix" your nervous system or whatever else they claim to do. Chiropractic is based on about 120year old "science". Science that has since beem proven to be wrong...

Chiropractic started when blood letting was a popular manner in which to cure infection. If your doctor told you he was going to get rid of your sinus infection by preforming some blood letting, would you let him (i hope not).
While the rest of the scientific/medicine community strives to learn new things and better treatment/intervention Chiropractic is content to utilize knowledge from the dark ages...

but hey...it is your spine...you are free to do what you want with it

Did you know the FDA has approved leeches as a medical device?

Did you know leeches are used in hospitals around the country? That leeches are used in skin grafts and reattachment surgeries? That they have an enzyme that breaks down blood clots? That maggots are currently used to clean wounds? Imagine that, leeches and maggots used in America's finest hospitals...

Humans started using leeches over three thousand years ago. Amazing how sometimes science takes three thousand years to figure out what human beings already knew.

But don't let these facts interfere with what you believe...

 

[JayOliver]

From my personal experience and input from a few others the right chiropractor can be effective in a lot of cases. However they won't be able to cure everyone. If you have had a bad spinal injury there may not be anything they can do.

Also if personal characteristics contribute to your back problems such as but not limited to; a fat gut, lack of core strength, tight muscle groups, muscular imbalance, etc., the chiropractor will usually only provide a temporary solution if any at all. If it is something minor and not too painful you might try fixing these things first.

Remember as well two things. Not all chiropractors are great, the same as with doctors. And two, everyone's spine is different. Some will never react well to being "aligned" while others will.

 

[JayOliver]

Sorry weird double post.

 

[alphamale]

i've had a run of the mil chiro that charged too much and did to little, and i certainly wouldnt do that again, but i currently have an osteopath who works both bones and mucles who is really good.

The best physical therapy i've evr had was from this bizzare old dude called martin who is a chain smoking former rhodesian soldier. to see him you;d think he was some old alcho or something but he's done things with my body and other members of the family i've never seen before.

he doesnt do any kind of 'cracking' like a chiro' but somehow re programs your muscles and skeletal system so that the correct parts are doing the correct work for different movements, ie you're dont compensate with one part for another thats damaged or weak.

He was able to make my whole body feel more pain free and aligned than i've ever felt before. I even mentioned to him when leaving once that my thumb was sore (had a HW land on it when i hit a double on him). the most i could move my left thumb towards my palm was about 2 inches from the palm, and it had been like that for about 6 months. he asked for a look at it, grabbed it, pulled it upwards with his eyes closed and then said 'try that', sure enough i could now touch my thumb to my palm pain free, and its been fine ever since.

too bad that crazy old dude live a 4 hours fligth away or id be there all the time.

 

[Wrestleben]

After the last NAGA I went to I couldn't barely turn my neck to see if I could change lanes driving home. I didn't go to any doctor/chiro and 2 days later the pain went away.

I did eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich when I got home...I think people should try PBJ's as they are great for fixing neck pain!

Get it?

 

[Newcastle]

I use to think like a lot of people that Chiro's were "quacks" or at the very least, slimy and to be avoided. I'm sure that is true in many cases but the same can be said about some MD's out there.

That being said, I'm really blown away by some of the replies here. I eventually was convinced to see a Chiro when I had so much pain in the left shoulder blade area. It felt like a terribly bad pinched nerve. I injured myself in the weight room and further inflamed it doing MT clinch work years ago. I found a great Chiro and he was able to give me relief. I do still have issues with (as it turned out to be a rib in my back) and do see the Chiro a couple times per month or more if needed. He is able to give me stem treatment, ultrasound, and cold laser therapy, not to mention a great massage to loosen things up. I would have been unable to attend a Marcelo Garcia seminar last month had he not been able to help me.

 

[moraf]

Did you know the FDA has approved leeches as a medical device?

Did you know leeches are used in hospitals around the country? That leeches are used in skin grafts and reattachment surgeries? That they have an enzyme that breaks down blood clots? That maggots are currently used to clean wounds? Imagine that, leeches and maggots used in America's finest hospitals...

Humans started using leeches over three thousand years ago. Amazing how sometimes science takes three thousand years to figure out what human beings already knew.

But don't let these facts interfere with what you believe...

Bloodletting was used as an example for something that has had no proven medical benefits (except for the odd incidence of rare blood diseases like haematomachrosis). The use of leeches has shown a positive effect on patients with coagulative disorders, but this still has nothing to do with bloodletting, which in itself is in fact harmful. And that was the example that he was making.

Chiropratice, like other alternative medicines, is not scientifically proven. Personally i do believe they have an extensive knowledge of the spine and such, which can in some cases be helpful. But i take all pseudoscience with a grain of salt. Word of mouth is not enough for me.

 

[batman69]

After the last NAGA I went to I couldn't barely turn my neck to see if I could change lanes driving home. I didn't go to any doctor/chiro and 2 days later the pain went away.

I did eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich when I got home...I think people should try PBJ's as they are great for fixing neck pain!

Get it?

i tried rubbing a a pbj all over my knee this morning and ll it did was make a big mess that my wife demanded i clean up immediately. so not only did your quackery not work but it got me in trouble with the wife. i will never listen to your medical advice again sir.

so you didn't need to see someone, does that equate to no one ever having to see a massage therapist or chiro? fuck, that logic is flawless, no way it could be misleading at all.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

see, this is where i get a little annoyed. so you're saying that the work the chiropractor does on me is bullshit, and doesn't help. you say i feel better only because he tells me a i feel better? hmmm, oh yeah, i forgot i have the ability to tell when i feel better and when i don't.

I'm not saying anything for or against chiros.

Just wanted to point out that the placebo effect is a significant one.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I use to think like a lot of people that Chiro's were "quacks" or at the very least, slimy and to be avoided. I'm sure that is true in many cases but the same can be said about some MD's out there.

This is an excellent point. You should see some of the wackos in my med school class. Sometimes I wonder if the admissions committee reviews files after getting completely baked.

 

[Bosozoku]

Bloodletting was used as an example for something that has had no proven medical benefits (except for the odd incidence of rare blood diseases like haematomachrosis). The use of leeches has shown a positive effect on patients with coagulative disorders, but this still has nothing to do with bloodletting, which in itself is in fact harmful. And that was the example that he was making.

Chiropratice, like other alternative medicines, is not scientifically proven. Personally i do believe they have an extensive knowledge of the spine and such, which can in some cases be helpful. But i take all pseudoscience with a grain of salt. Word of mouth is not enough for me.

Then pretend the example was in reference to "utilizing knowledge from the dark ages."

The point stands: an ancient medical practice discarded, and only recently reintroduced as scientific proof caught up to practice. (And leeches are currently used in numerous procedures, beyond just patients with coagulation disorders.)

To tell batman69 that his pain relief was an illusion strikes me as more ludicrous than any medical claim made by chiropractors, acupuncturists, etc.

We're discussing very complex systems (CNS, etc) that might not be fully understood by science. Sometimes things work before we really understand the why or how. The explanations might not be on point, but pain relief is pretty straight forward. It hurt and then it didn't--that's all that really matters.

 

[Bucketbot]

Hey Bucketbot, you gotta' relax man. I'm willing to bet you've never even tried one out. I went last month because I had been having a lot of soreness in my neck. I couldn't turn my head without pain. I definately couldn't "pop" my neck it was so tight. My chiro worked that knot out and adjusted my neck and the relief was instantaneous and lasting. Don't tell me I felt better because some told me I should. That's just plain insulting.

I wish you would have bet on that man...because you would have lost!:icon_chee
Just busting your chops man!

I have been to a chiro, have i spoken/had discussions with several chiros, and done much research on the subject...so i am not just pulling my info from no where.

Regarding your comment:
"Don't tell me I felt better because some told me I should. That's just plain insulting"

See my posts below for a better explaination on what i meant.

 

[HuntingtonBeach]

Thanks for all the feed back guys.

I followed your advice and put a few leaches on my back and ate a PBandJ sandwich and now feel much better.

 

[Bucketbot]

see, this is where i get a little annoyed. so you're saying that the work the chiropractor does on me is bullshit, and doesn't help. you say i feel better only because he tells me a i feel better? hmmm, oh yeah, i forgot i have the ability to tell when i feel better and when i don't.

i agree that if my chiro was to tell me he was going to "fix my nervous system.". i'd split and wouldn't go back. as far as the spine thing, i can remeber getting sent to a chiropractor when i was a teen, them talking about how my spine being out of whack was fucking up a lot of things and walking away with the getting conned feeling.

now as far as my current chiro, i visit him after hard training sessions, tournaments or when i been training too much when just stretching or yoga are not alleviating the out of whack feeling in mostly my hips, elbows, and neck where i have the most problems.

to give a more detailed example, while getting ready for a tournament, i got stubborn on tapping to an armbar that i thought wasn't there. i misjudged it with the resulting crunching and popping that comes with such stupidity. after ice, ibuprfin, and elevation for days i was still unable to move my arm fluidly as i would like and it really affected my training. i went in and saw my guy asking him what he thought, since i had an appointment with him and hadn't had the chance to call kaiser yet. he felt around in my arm explained what i had done. adjusted my arm, and i walked out of there able to move my arm freely. i went back to training the next day with no pain or problem.

was it a miracle? not even close. do i know the science behind it? not even close. did i get to go back to training? yes and i walked away with a gold medal from the tournament.

on the other side, when i dislocated a rib and as a last ditch effort went to him to see what he would say. he sent me home saying that there was nothing i could do and to rest it for at least 6 weeks.

that's my take on the whole thing from my perspective, and i can't speak for anyone else but my chiro rocks.

Hey man, thanks for responding. It retrospect i did not make myself as clear as i should of, so thanks for pointing that out, and giving me a chance to better explain myself.

It sounds as if your chiro is one of the good ones. Again i should have been more specific in my original statement. Personally, i would never recommend chiropractic (see previous posts) but for those who want to use them there are decent ones out there, so i should have stated that. My apologizes

Where i have problems is when chiros get into "what they are doing" and start telling you that they releasing the flow of energy from your spine from inate sublaxations. This is proven to be false, no such thing exists. There are such a thing as sublaxations of the spine but not in the sense that most chiropractors understand the term.

Chiropractic can be useful for short term releif of problems, and there is an actual medical term for "medical chiropractic" (the term escapes me right this second) that when done over the SHORT TERM can have extremely postive effects. The main different though is that this type of chiro is done by a qualified physician who will preform all of the appropriate neurological exams (including a nuerological exam, and X-ray, CT scans, MRIs if deemed appropriate). If all of this comes back okay, than the physician will go ahead and do what he has to do. If the chiro can be used to treat an acute problem, and that problem is solved...great! If the chiro cannot be used to treat the problem, you do not continue to do it as the benefit/risk ration is not good.

So again it sounds as if your chiro is one of the good ones. But i have to ask did he have you referred to a physician/neurologist 1st for a physical? Did he go over the potential risks with you 1st before preforming any treatments (such as the risk of paralysis)?

Additionally, you stated that you do not claim to know that "science" behind chiropractic...and fair enough. I do, i am also aware of the "education" these individuals recieve, thus my skepticism on the subject

So in hindsight my initial commments where a bit inflammatory and not as well stated as they could have been...

hopefully i have cleared up any misunderstandings...

if not please feel free to ask!:icon_chee

good day to you all!

 

[Bucketbot]

Did you know the FDA has approved leeches as a medical device?

Did you know leeches are used in hospitals around the country? That leeches are used in skin grafts and reattachment surgeries? That they have an enzyme that breaks down blood clots? That maggots are currently used to clean wounds? Imagine that, leeches and maggots used in America's finest hospitals...

Humans started using leeches over three thousand years ago. Amazing how sometimes science takes three thousand years to figure out what human beings already knew.

But don't let these facts interfere with what you believe...

(i will preface this with stating that i am talking about "pure chiropractic" and not that which i described in my above post)

Oh sir...
nice try though!

Now lets see if i can point out the flawed logic in your statements, i use this inflammatory language because of your statement:
"But don't let these facts interfere with what you believe"

I knew the facts when i made my statement, you however (as i will point out, do not), but i digress...

Yes i am aware that leechs are used in hospitals around the country and that this is a medical approved treatment. I am a RN (soon to be an NP) and i have utilized this treatment before, and seen 1st hand how well it works.

Thanks for attempting to point out your understanding of how leeches work...but it is as elementary at best. But as you said do not let the facts interfere with what you believe.

Leeches (are their subsequent use in treatment) have been tested in numerous clinical trials, and have been proven to be effective in wound treatment/healing. Additionally there is sound logical behind the mechanism of action in which leeches work. The medical community has study what leeches do, and proved that they actually do it, and that what they do actually works!

The point is that, yes this is and old treatment, but it has been proved to have been effective via rigrious clinical studies. No different than the use of ASA (asprin, and numerous other drugs).

Chiropractic on the other hand...
Is not based on sound science. It is based on "science" that is literally 100 years old. As science/medicine has contiuned to grow and evolve and change its practices to meet "best practice standards" chiropractic has not.

As science and medicine has improved, chiropractic has not acknowledged these advances or compeletely ignores them.
Additionally, there has been numerous clinical trials demonstrating that chiropractic does nothing and the clinical studies that do show that chiropractic has an effect are flawed at best. But again nice try.

But as you said. Do not let facts/the truth get in the way of what you believe.

and regarding your later statment:
"We're discussing very complex systems (CNS, etc) that might not be fully understood by science. Sometimes things work before we really understand the why or how. The explanations might not be on point, but pain relief is pretty straight forward. It hurt and then it didn't--that's all that really matters. "

If you cannot see the flawed logical/logical fallacy in that statement, you are in more trouble that i thought.

but again...do not let the facts/truth get in the way of what you believe.

 

[Bucketbot]

Thanks for all the feed back guys.

I followed your advice and put a few leaches on my back and ate a PBandJ sandwich and now feel much better.

Dude that is one of the funniest things that i have read all day!

thanks for that!:icon_chee