Martin Scorsese's THE IRISHMAN (Available on Netflix Nov. 27)

[Peteyandjia]

The weird thing about the grocery store beatdown is, it’s poorly directed (by an otherise genius director). That’s its only problem though. It’s not that Bobby D is too old. It’s the choice of a wide shot - which Marty probably chose because he thought being far away with some distance would make up for the oldness - but in fact, it had the opposite effect. A wide shot highlights the overall body movement, which is inescapably elderly.

This is how you film a fight so that even an old as dirt guy looks like he’s realistically kicking ass:

 

[Peteyandjia]

Since I just complained though, for the record: I Loved this movie. It’s not up there with his old classics, but it’s still upper shelf stuff. Getting a 7 from Scorsese is still like an 8.5 from some random director. Well worth watching. I’m glad I caught it in a theater full of people too. That was a fun experience. And yeah, count me in with everyone saying Pesci was the real show stealer. Brilliant, understated performance by him. He hit all the notes just right.

 

[Ying Li]

Since when is DeNiro Irish?

 

[ufcfan4]

It was a step below Goodfellas and casino but i liked that it was subdued. Pesci killed it.

Really liked the realism of the hits, especially how Hoffa's was not over the top, felt real.

Just finished it. Thought it was terrific. As you said, not quite on Goodfellas level but only a notch below the three best Scorsese films (in my opinion): Goodfellas, Raging Bull, and Taxi Driver.

Also had that trademark Scorsese humor in there. Both scenes between Graham and Pacino (though even more so the one in Florida) were outright hilarious to me. When you saw Pacino wasn't going to let the lateness and his sticking to his guns on the ten minutes philosophy go and then Graham needling him about how it should be fifteen. Felt like you could thrown Larry David in there for that discussion without missing a beat.

I also have to say, that for a three hour twenty minute movie, I was compelled the entire time. Moved very briskly for such a long film.

 

[ufcfan4]

Yeah, I don't know what Scorsese was thinking by shooting that in a wide angle one take. It was really awkward beat down, that's likely going to be mocked from here to eternity. Should've been heavily edited to hide Deniro's old man movements.

All in all, that scene was just pointless. It's been done a thousand times in other mob flicks, with the whole over-protective mob goon beating some schmuck who crossed a family member. We get it. You don't want to mess with a mobster's family. It goes without saying. You don't really need to emphasize it in damn near every mob movie ever made.

Great point about it feeling redundant though I think they needed it to really have the scene with his daughter at the end hit hard. She made that point that none of them could come to him with their problems or if someone had wronged them cause they knew he would flip the fuck out. That scene underscores it. It just wasn't done convincingly unfortunately. The poor execution of it- with those kicks to the face was bad but it certainly doesn't taint the movie. Even a great mob film beatdown like Sonny to Carlo Rizzi in the Godfather has a couple of blatant botched spots in it.

Great film.

 

[ufcfan4]

Since I just complained though, for the record: I Loved this movie. It’s not up there with his old classics, but it’s still upper shelf stuff. Getting a 7 from Scorsese is still like an 8.5 from some random director. Well worth watching. I’m glad I caught it in a theater full of people too. That was a fun experience. And yeah, count me in with everyone saying Pesci was the real show stealer. Brilliant, understated performance by him. He hit all the notes just right.

He was terrific. Probably going to be a stacked best supporting actor awards season with Pesci vs. Pitt vs. (potentially) Pacino and Hanks.

What I loved too was that it was such a different character/characterization than Pesci's nearly identical roles in Goodfellas and Casino- calm guy who everyone goes to to clear up the disputes and issues rather than the hothead who is causing them.

 

[Peteyandjia]

If you watch the movie on fast forward it only takes 3 minutes

Pffft, 3 minutes.

Who has all that time?

Don’t worry bro, I gotchu.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Pffft, 3 minutes.

Who has all that time?

Don’t worry bro, I gotchu.

Wow, what a masterpiece

 

[ufcfan4]

Since when is DeNiro Irish?

Actually since birth. 3/4 Irish. Just always gets associated with his partial Italian heritage because it was his paternal grandpa thus retained the Italian surname.

 

[Drain Bamage]

I think it was intentionally a little confusing, to make you feel as on edge as Deniro's character was at the time. I don't think the audience was supposed to know exactly what was gonna go down, and how.

Spoiler

I thought the son was getting killed too. It also took me a bit to realize that Deniro was being instructed to be the actual hitman to essentially buy his trust with the mob, and not just another decoy to throw Hoffa off the scent.

Spoiler

I read it as De Niro wanted to sit in the back because he was suspicious that he was getting killed. He didn't trust anybody, and rightly so as at the end of the movie with Pesci's character basically states as much "Jimmy was a good guy. He had a good family. But I chose us over them. Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em." This is basically what it all comes down to. This was a world where nobody was to be trusted because the only thing anybody cared about was power.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

This movie is terrible.
Pesci was great though. Looked great, too.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Where are you from? Where I'm from on the East Coast (New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, etc) being part Italian and part Irish is very common. I'm part Italian and part Irish, actually. More Polish than Irish though.

From northeast myself. Very common mix.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

I thought Pesci out acted everyone.

 

[ufcfan4]

I thought Pesci out acted everyone.

All the more remarkable considering he's been essentially retired for 20 years.

 

[Drain Bamage]

The weird thing about the grocery store beatdown is, it’s poorly directed (by an otherise genius director). That’s its only problem though. It’s not that Bobby D is too old. It’s the choice of a wide shot - which Marty probably chose because he thought being far away with some distance would make up for the oldness - but in fact, it had the opposite effect. A wide shot highlights the overall body movement, which is inescapably elderly.

Yeah that bit stuck out.

I would have filmed it from inside the store. I would have done two shots.

First shot: Exterior: De Niro and daughter approaching the store, De Niro tells daughter to wait

Second shot: Interior: De Niro walks in and throws the guy out. Then we see bits of the beatdown outside unfold through the shop windows. We hear finger bones crack and screaming in pain. The horrified patrons sit in shocked silence. De Niro and daughter walk away down the street.

 

[Drain Bamage]

I thought Pesci out acted everyone.

I thought all three leads were great. Pacino was fucking hilarious.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

I agree with others who said the guys were just too old but that didn't stop me from enjoying the movie overall. I didn't know Frank's story and I thought it came off as believable. Also count me in with the Pesci stole the show club. He was fantastic. Deniro beating up the grocery guy looked about 110 years old and needing a walker to kick the guy though. Huge difference between that and the Goodfellas Billy Batts scene.

Dude, amen on the clerk stomping scene.. DeNiro looked so frail and unimposing there.. there were a lot of scenes written in this film that I think would have been potentially legendary if the actors were in their 40’s

 

[dc007]

Dude, amen on the clerk stomping scene.. DeNiro looked so frail and unimposing there.. there were a lot of scenes written in this film that I think would have been potentially legendary if the actors were in their 40’s

Seriously. It was still very good but damn if this were made in the 90's, it could have been incredible.

 

[ufcfan4]

It was cool seeing Romano and Sebastian in there. Wonder how their casting came about. I know Romano has broadened his work outside of comedy post-tv show and Sebastian was just in Green Book but that’s a big deal landing a Scorsese film.

Keitel cameo was pretty great. Cool to see Paul Hermann from Goodfellas and the Sopranos in there as well.

Stephen Graham is probably one of my favorite character actors out there and his scenes with Pacino were among my favorite in the film.

DeNiro was quite good throughout but, as others have said, Pesci stole the show.

 

[chickenluver]

All in all, that scene was just pointless. It's been done a thousand times in other mob flicks, with the whole over-protective mob goon beating some schmuck who crossed a family member. We get it. You don't want to mess with a mobster's family. It goes without saying. You don't really need to emphasize it in damn near every mob movie ever made.

I disagree. More than just showing that Frank was the kind of man to beat people who messed with his family I think the point was to show the effect in had on his daughter who witnessed it all. None of his children even wanted to tell him about any problems they were having with people because they were afraid of what he would do to that person. It was the complete opposite of that scene in Goodfellas when Karen first sees Henry beat a guy and admits she thought it was exciting. Basically it's the first time we see the cause of the estrangement from his children, although since the mother and daughter seemed hesitant to tell him about the grocer Frank maybe had already done something similar in the past.