Lets talk Frank Shamrock

[Cleveland]

Would you please back that shit up with anything but hearsay because that is some pretty serious stuff to throw around on a MMA forum. I've heard one dude claim it and Frank deny it. I'm also very certain Frank is entierly to full of himself to actually fix a fight, not that he'd need it agains Kimbo.

Frank should be in the HOF. One of the greats for sure.

Ok now tell me what has he done to tarnish his legacy as a fighter like I asked the first time. The fighter not the person. THE FIGHTER.

You're either both just trying to be contrarians or just salty. The quote below (from Frank no less) even in trying to explain it in a positive light clearly positions a "fix."

A fighter vying for a fight by saying their not in condition to fight AND they would take it easy. It's gross.

"The real truth is that when I threw the information out there and said,

 

[VeeEight]

his book was much better than i expected it to be. he mans up and says he was lazy and wrong in certain situations re AKA. but not about Josh Thomson, he still hates him

i dont think ill watch the doc tho, just seems like too much

 

[VeeEight]

Would you please back that shit up with anything but hearsay because that is some pretty serious stuff to throw around on a MMA forum. I've heard one dude claim it and Frank deny it. I'm also very certain Frank is entierly to full of himself to actually fix a fight, not that he'd need it agains Kimbo.

he was on sherdog radio after that and claimed he'd 'make kimbo look like a million bucks' not sure what that means but sounds suspect

 

[Arkain2K]

That's insane. When it happened most agreed it was the best fight of all time and stayed that way until around 2005 or 2006. If that fight doesn't belong n the poll no fight from the 90's belongs on the poll.

When it happened most agreed Dana White is a petty man, and it stayed that way until now.

 

[Kazuya Mishima]

You're either both just trying to be contrarians or just salty. The quote below (from Frank no less) even in trying to explain it in a positive light clearly positions a "fix."

A fighter vying for a fight by saying their not in condition to fight AND they would take it easy. It's gross.

"The real truth is that when I threw the information out there and said,

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Would like to see him get the recognition he deserves by being inducted into the HOF, but that won't be happening in Dana's lifetime.

 

[Cleveland]

I don't get it are you gona answer my question? Did he not win a UFC belt being undersized? Was he not the first prototype fighter? etc.

I don't care about what shady shit he did post fighting.

It's not post fighting...? He was trying to arrange a shady fight. The promotion is the only reason he might not have done something despicable.

Intent should trump execution.

A thrown fight is the most damaging thing a fighter can do to their legacy.

 

[Kazuya Mishima]

It's not post fighting...? He was trying to arrange a shady fight. The promotion is the only reason he might not have something despicable.

Intent should trump execution.

A thrown fight is the most damaging thing a fighter can do to their legacy.

OK so how did he ruin his true prime fighting legacy? I just don't think you understand me or you have a different mind set. Back in the day Frank left a big legacy and is a legend. The only thing that would ruin that legacy if the Tito fight was fixed and such. WTF does out of his prime losing fights way past it caring only about making the last buck Shamrock in Elite XC have to do with ruining his legacy?

He is still a UFC champ, a first true prototype mma fighter, fought undersized, etc. etc.

 

[Cleveland]

OK so how did he ruin his true prime fighting legacy? I just don't think you understand me or you have a different mind set. Back in the day Frank left a big legacy and is a legend. The only thing that would ruin that legacy if the Tito fight was fixed and such. WTF does out of his prime losing fights way past it caring only about making the last buck Shamrock in Elite XC have to do with ruining his legacy?

He is still a UFC champ, a first true prototype mma fighter, fought undersized, etc. etc.

This is why I avoid talk about "primes." A fighter is not two different people who's accolades are mutually exclusive with regards to the points they are winning and losing. You can be at your peak and still have the game pass you by, it has nothing to do with "prime."

Frank the fighter turned into an also ran, as has previously been mentioned helped extend the Cung fight and in his own words offered to do the same with Kimbo.

He was without a doubt an originator and as you've mentioned laid the blueprint of what it was going to take to be successful in the future.

You still can't ignore his later transgressions. It's why a lot of us get frustrated when the "strength of competition" argument inevitably comes up. If you're the best of your time it's not your fault someone better wasn't fighting or hell even born yet.


You don't need to go out on a string of loses or turn into a circus freak. I for one will be very impressed by GSP, win or lose, if he feels it's no longer his time and walks away. For all his accolades, Frank will always know he did it wrong. I'm looking forward to watching the documentary and am willing to bet Frank echoes these sentiments.

 

[hypocalking]

the bound by blood advertisement on here has me in the mood to discuss his career.

IMO Frank was the first fighter in mma I ever really felt was unbeatable.

the absolute war with enson, wearing down Jeremy horn, destroying igor zinoviev, submitting kevin jackson with ease. outlasting tito ortiz

guy was an absolute monster and deserves far more respect from the mma community than he gets. Personally i really feel he helped push mma. he pretty much was the man who helped strikeforce turn into a competitor. guy is one of my favorites, but there are things that that bring down his legacy imo. stuff i don't think this documentary will touch up on.

he left the sport in his prime for god knows whatever reason. you can argue the finances, but there were so many superfights he never really looked to get.(no i'm not talking about the ken vs frank superfight). also the rumors of himm offering to fix the Elite XC fight with Kimbo when they were looking for a potential replacement kinda hurts


How does sherdog see this documentary, and what is everyones thoughts on Frank?

Most people posting here on Sherdog didn't even start watching MMA tell well after Franks run in the UFC. Frank was a bad MFer at the time. I still say his fight with Tito is in my top 5 of greatest fights of all time!

 

[Kazuya Mishima]

This is why I avoid talk about "primes." A fighter is not two different people who's accolades are mutually exclusive with regards to the points they are winning and losing. You can be at your peak and still have the game pass you by, it has nothing to do with "prime."

Frank the fighter turned into an also ran, as has previously been mentioned helped extend the Cung fight and in his own words offered to do the same with Kimbo.

He was without a doubt an originator and as you've mentioned laid the blueprint of what it was going to take to be successful in the future.

You still can't ignore his later transgressions. It's why a lot of us get frustrated when the "strength of competition" argument inevitably comes up. If you're the best of your time it's not your fault someone better wasn't fighting or hell even born yet.


You don't need to go out on a string of loses or turn into a circus freak. I for one will be very impressed by GSP, win or lose, if he feels it's no longer his time and walks away. For all his accolades, Frank will always know he did it wrong. I'm looking forward to watching the documentary and am willing to bet Frank echoes these sentiments.

He did nothing to tarnish his legendary status as a fighter.

 

[mmaelitefan000]

i watched frank's doc on spike last night. he was a real good fighter but the dude doesn't seem all there in the head. he has a BLOOD brother who is HOMELESS. he went to see him and hung out for a min then took off. I mean c'mon dude, your a freaking celeb and your BLOOD brother is homeless?? there's something wrong with this picture and on top of that he didn't go see his foster dad when he was near death in the hospital who just wanted to see him one last time. he didn't go to his funeral either. ken seems like a genuine dude with a good heart with better morals than frank. im just judging frank from the show however there may be more to it than we know to why he's the way he is.

 

[DVN**]

plus I think the fix was, that he'd let kimbo win. or atleast keep it standing as he did with Cung Le. he had plenty of opportunities to put Cung away but didn't.

Huh? You have no proof of neither. Frank would stand with anyone around that time.

Lol at he had opportunities to put Le away. You didnt watch the 3 rounds of Le beating shamrock up then breaking his arm?

Shamrock is a Mw all time great. The only thing about him that has kept him out if the HoF is his relationship with Dana White.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

Unfortunately, MMA was about dead when he was ruling so many people didn't see him in his prime. He was amazing back in the day, he had good striking, takedowns, submissions and was strong with good cardio. He was the complete package.

 

[RoyCisneros]

Huh? You have no proof of neither. Frank would stand with anyone around that time.

Lol at he had opportunities to put Le away. You didnt watch the 3 rounds of Le beating shamrock up then breaking his arm?

Shamrock is a Mw all time great. The only thing about him that has kept him out if the HoF is his relationship with Dana White.

you are kidding yourself if you think Frank put full effort into beating cung le.

plus he acknowledges the fix with kimbo

 

[Det Kimble]

One of the most skilled fighters to ever compete. He had the tools to be considered one of the GOATs, IMO.

a true legend and all that...

but pound for pound the biggest ----- in the sport today.

did anyone see him on the fightmasters program? "I train champions, thats what I do"... by the way frank who exactly did you train? someone in the IFL?

 

[VeeEight]

he didn't go see his foster dad when he was near death in the hospital who just wanted to see him one last time. he didn't go to his funeral either. ken seems like a genuine dude with a good heart with better morals than frank

according to frank's book, bob lost his house because of ken causing problems in the neighbourhood. frank did see bob when he had a heart attack, but didnt go after the final one. according to frank, he a falling out with bob & ken when frank left, and it was ken's wife who kept him updated. "i had to bury him many years before, unfortunately, because he stopped being my dad. i was used to letting people go. it was still sad"

 

[VeeEight]

Lol at he had opportunities to put Le away.

he did. watch the last round

 

[RcksonbyArmbar]

agree with anyone calling him one of the, if not first, complete fighters.

 

[ovbious]

IMO, he is top 5 LHW

(alphabetic order to avoid butthurting)

Chuck
F.Shamrock
Jones
Shogun
Wandy