Economy Large hospitals doing massive lay-offs, cutting positions, and even going out of business.

[Islam Imamate]

Every government made a mess of this but 99.9 percent of the outrage is directed at trump... time to stop beating that drum if you want to be taken seriously.

If I am American why shouldn't I focus my outrage toward my government? Why should I complain about the Italian or Spanish government when those are not the governments of my nation?

 

[Ophydian]

If I am American why shouldn't I focus my outrage toward my government? Why should I complain about the Italian or Spanish government when those are not the governments of my nation?

You should be Canadian for a day.

 

[trac209]

If I am American why shouldn't I focus my outrage toward my government? Why should I complain about the Italian or Spanish government when those are not the governments of my nation?

Good point but it would be very disingenuous to say many other countries aren’t focused on trump either. I know mine is.

 

[all caps]

In other words, its because of the for-profit model of medicine that this is occurring. Almost like our medical system needs systemic reform...

Or, it's working exactly as it was designed

 

[Islam Imamate]

Or, it's working exactly as it was designed

 

[Hadron90]

If I am American why shouldn't I focus my outrage toward my government? Why should I complain about the Italian or Spanish government when those are not the governments of my nation?

Because it shifts what is a deficiency in healthcare systems across the West, to just blaming Trump. And implication is that is if we just replaced Trump with Biden, we would magically be on the level as Taiwan when it comes to pandemic response. If something has affected countries all over the world in similar fashion, the blame probably isn't on anyones specific leader.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Because it shifts what is a deficiency in healthcare systems across the West, to just blaming Trump. And implication is that is if we just replaced Trump with Biden, we would magically be on the level as Taiwan when it comes to pandemic response. If something has affected countries all over the world in similar fashion, the blame probably isn't on anyones specific leader.

That doesn't mean that anyone particular leader didn't make mistakes they should be held accountable for and as an American I am most interested in the mistakes of my leader, not other ones.

 

[Lubaolong]

Sounds scary, but I think I’m probably pretty safe. We received an email from the highest level of management to alleviate anxiety some people were having regarding furloughs. They basically said we are not there yet and are taking steps to avoid landing there. I think my contract allows for 2 weeks of furlough per year if required. Other employees where I work would probably get hammered harder. Some specialties are really essential while others you can do without for a bit. I’m sure all the cosmetic dermatologists and plastic surgeons are getting destroyed right now.

 

[Philo-Publius]

And why should that be credited to Trump? The same guy who ignored early warnings, said we had this under control in Feb, said it was no big deal and said he decides when States re-open contrary to governors who wanted to be more cautious.

We have had a good response because of the lockdowns and social distancing. No thanks to the righwing media and Kushner, who Trump relies on for news and advice. The lone exception was Tucker Carlson who did warn the president this was serious.

No world leader gets all the credit for what his or her nation has accomplished. But, they do deserve credit for what they themselves accomplish. Even though Trump was a few weeks late with mitigation, he did assemble a team that has done a good job of providing direction on how to mitigate, mobilizing military support and resources, and utilizing private industry to assist in the "war" effort (e.g., building ventilators rapidly). America has done a better job with this virus than most nations in the northern hemisphere with accurate reporting. Also, being three weeks late on mitigation may have made little difference. We are all probably still going to get this virus and some point since it lingers for so long (e.g., 17 days on a cruise ship with no people), and there are so many opportunities to transmit. It's just a matter of limiting the number of people who get it at once, which America has been relatively successful in doing. And, we would be dealing with the double edged sword of the virus that can kill people or the terrible economy that can kill people regardless. Addressing one compromises the efforts of combating the other.

 

[Philo-Publius]

I heard that they found the ventilators were actually doing more damage and good, and that putting people on oxygen was found to be the better solution.

Did CNN tell you that? Some of these people die without a ventilator. Hooking them up to a CPAP can spread the virus into the air on the exhale, and it absolutely does not help them if they can no longer breath on their own.

 

[DrunkZombie]

this doesn't sound right at all. The hospitals should be overrun with screaming and dying patients. retired nurses should be recalled because they can't handle the amount of people pouring in. Also who is going to be manning those tents built by the army corp of engineers?

 

[Philo-Publius]

In other words, its because of the for-profit model of medicine that this is occurring. Almost like our medical system needs systemic reform...

Part of the reason we have done better than some of our European counterparts at combating this virus is because our privatized Health Care delivery system is better resourced. Resources in the socialized delivery systems we see in Europe are rationed and more finite, which is part of the reason why they were woefully unprepared to deal with the numbers.

 

[cincymma79]

I heard that they found the ventilators were actually doing more damage and good, and that putting people on oxygen was found to be the better solution.

No
No it isn’t
This is literally what I do for a living and it’s why the media shouldn’t even be writing these articles. They don’t understand the medicine and fuck up the story and then people like you read it and don’t understand enough to even get how they fucked it up and then fuck up their fuck up

the strategy used for ards is what hospitals were doing for these folks but it’s ineffective vs using high amounts of o2. For ards you add high levels of peep and adjust it based on the oxygen requirements. Since the underlying issue isn’t the same this doesn’t work as well as they expected.

 

[cincymma79]

In other words, its because of the for-profit model of medicine that this is occurring. Almost like our medical system needs systemic reform...

They still wouldnt be doing those surgeries and would still have a budget

 

[Philo-Publius]

No
No it isn’t
This is literally what I do for a living and it’s why the media shouldn’t even be writing these articles. They don’t understand the medicine and fuck up the story and then people like you read it and don’t understand enough to even get how they fucked it up and then fuck up their fuck up

the strategy used for ards is what hospitals were doing for these folks but it’s ineffective vs using high amounts of o2. For ards you add high levels of peep and adjust it based on the oxygen requirements. Since the underlying issue isn’t the same this doesn’t work as well as they expected.

The media is intentionally trying to scare people with misinformation, and minimize the good the federal government is doing, for political leverage. They are hoping for this virus to do maximum damage.

 

[cincymma79]

The media is intentionally trying to scare people with misinformation and minimize the good the federal government is doing for political leverage. They are hoping for this virus to do maximum damage.

Just wait for people to say you want kids dead. Should be at least 2-3

 

[Philo-Publius]

Just wait for people to say you want kids dead. Should be at least 2-3

Well that is now. They are big fans of abortion and selling fetus organs. They are already on top of that.

 

[spamburger]

Californians should feel safe knowing that caring for illegals has forced the closure of nearly 100 hospitals over the past few decades. Illegals get "free" treatment at any ER and can't be turned away. Expensive!

its truly great. nothing is more rewarding than treating an illegal with a hangover

 

[MicroBrew]

No world leader gets all the credit for what his or her nation has accomplished. But, they do deserve credit for what they themselves accomplish. Even though Trump was a few weeks late with mitigation, he did assemble a team that has done a good job of providing direction on how to mitigate, mobilizing military support and resources, and utilizing private industry to assist in the "war" effort (e.g., building ventilators rapidly). America has done a better job with this virus than most nations in the northern hemisphere with accurate reporting. Also, being three weeks late on mitigation may have made little difference. We are all probably still going to get this virus and some point since it lingers for so long (e.g., 17 days on a cruise ship with no people), and there are so many opportunities to transmit. It's just a matter of limiting the number of people who get it at once, which America has been relatively successful in doing. And, we would be dealing with the double edged sword of the virus that can kill people or the terrible economy that can kill people regardless. Addressing one compromises the efforts of combating the other.

If you give him credit for finally doing something then by that standard any president in this situation would deserve credit because every president would have done something even if they were late in doing it.

 

[Philo-Publius]

If you give him credit for finally doing something then by that standard any president in this situation would deserve credit because every president would have done something even if they were late in doing it.

"Finally?" Or, "just in time?" Who is the expert on when the best time to shut down our economy for this really was? What would the consequences have been for shutting down our economy 3 weeks earlier? Would it have caused more damage or less damage?

One thing is for certain. We would sill be getting damaged by this virus either way, and the media would still be blaming Trump and frightening people to maximize damage.