Kung Fu

This subject has been beaten down to death. it's always the practioner rather than the style. there are always a bunch on a site to say otherwise- but none of them would have the balls to go a real kung fu gym and issue a challenge.

also...
if two fighters go to the ground- the bjj who has more training on the ground will more than likely beat the less experienced kung fu guy. however, give the two guys a weapon- my money would be on the kung fu guy.
 
Originally posted by allyne
This subject has been beaten down to death. it's always the practioner rather than the style. there are always a bunch on a site to say otherwise- but none of them would have the balls to go a real kung fu gym and issue a challenge.

also...
if two fighters go to the ground- the bjj who has more training on the ground will more than likely beat the less experienced kung fu guy. however, give the two guys a weapon- my money would be on the kung fu guy.
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i hate when ppl say this. BJJ wins, bc opinion and statistics say so. but the weapon part...why woudl a kungfu person win? says who
 
Has anyone here ever practised kajukembo. It is a MA that was developed in Hawai for street fights.It mixes Karate,judo,Ju-Jitsu,Kempo,and Shaolin Kung Fu. In my dojo we train as best as we can for multiple atackers. We spar with "pig in the middle" were two to five guys attack one person. Of corse the "pig" is a very high belt,it is'nt full strength and the "pig" almost all ways loses, but it does get you use to some form of street fighting.
 
Originally posted by BlackBeltNow
i hate when ppl say this. BJJ wins, bc opinion and statistics say so. but the weapon part...why woudl a kungfu person win? says who
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says me, and anybody else who would have any common sense. if you learn kung fu and have been doing it- you should have experience in learning weapons- whether it be a knife, sword, sticks or bo staff. bjj is more than likely not to teach that or their system is just not as effective in that area.

but hey if your bjj and muay thai style is that great- there are many good there are many kung fu schools in the bay area that you can test your 'opinions and statistics' at. and i don't doubt that your not good (because you seem to be very knowledgeable in mma), but i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find somebody (especially in SF) that would school you hard using kung fu techniques.

peace
 
Originally posted by allyne
says me, and anybody else who would have any common sense. if you learn kung fu and have been doing it- you should have experience in learning weapons- whether it be a knife, sword, sticks or bo staff. bjj is more than likely not to teach that or their system is just not as effective in that area.

but hey if your bjj and muay thai style is that great- there are many good there are many kung fu schools in the bay area that you can test your 'opinions and statistics' at. and i don't doubt that your not good (because you seem to be very knowledgeable in mma), but i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find somebody (especially in SF) that would school you hard using kung fu techniques.

peace
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u think havig more experience holding a knife makes u more skilled w/ a knife? what makes u think the techniques u learn are NOT worse than instinct? how do u know a benihana chef would not be a better fighter w/ a knife than a kungfu guy w/ a knife?
 
your right a benihana chef just may be a bad ass. i'm just saying the odds are the guy who trains to fight with the particular weapon would win.

just like rolling around on matt doesn't gurantee you'll be able to beat somebody on the street. but it does sure as hell up your odds.
 
and from what i've seen - bjj schools when they're rolling on the matt in the 'regular' class aren't having guys raining down punches on them while they are trying to get a submission. in fact most of those the average guys who only train in bjj (excluding those who compete in mma) probably never have taken a punch before and probably would choke up if they did get hit in a real fight (which is sorta like what you said about techniques being worst than instinct).
 
Originally posted by allyne
and from what i've seen - bjj schools when they're rolling on the matt in the 'regular' class aren't having guys raining down punches on them while they are trying to get a submission. in fact most of those the average guys who only train in bjj (excluding those who compete in mma) probably never have taken a punch before and probably would choke up if they did get hit in a real fight (which is sorta like what you said about techniques being worst than instinct).
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of course the BJJ thig is right. i never said its wrong. i'd be an idiot to tell u BJJ helps u box or kick or use weapons. i just dopn't believe in weapon training cuz theres no competition to test it in. if here wre, i'd watch it and judge for myself. i'm a person who assumes the worst of something until someting makes me doubt it.
 
I tend to agree, though my kung fu school does alot of weapons training, where in a fuckin fight am i gonna be able to pull out a spear, or double broadsword? However.....in a barfight , training with the staff turns a pool cue into some fun :)
 
blackbelt-

in the us- there's no weapons competition- but in phillipines they still have escrima competitions. the phillipino community is huge in the bay area- so you should check it out- i think you would really like it. real applicable.

kung fu weapons- you just run drills over n' over till it becomes a reflex just as you would run armbar or muay thai drills. and like true2kungfu said your not likely to have a spear or broadsword- but you don't need to . any stick of close to equivalent would do, whether it be a pool stick or car club - striking angles and disarm techniques still work the same.

personall, even though i had more years in traditional kung fu- like you i feel more natural sparring using muay thai techniques. but even then i still like to mix in choy lay fut (known for strikes coming down at 45 degrees)and it has always caught the other guy by surpised since they were only used to encountering karate, tkd, and muay thai techniques. and in the last 3 'real' fights i've gotten in to- I was able apply wing chun techniques (along w/ muay thai stuff), and i'm managed to kick ass and come home with my face still pretty. maybe it's (kung fu) is just not your thing- but i'm just saying the more arsenals you have (and doing it well) than the better off you are.
 
some bay area kung fu reference - some schools you should swing by just to see how kung fu works in sf bay area. these two schools i know teach the traditional way but also modernized with the times and cross train in different styles.

tat mau wong - sf
buk sing choy lay fut - fremont - shane lacey is retired from competition for a long while but he's still pretty famous for "gong sau's" (challenges) in the kung fu community.
 
Originally posted by allyne
some bay area kung fu reference - some schools you should swing by just to see how kung fu works in sf bay area. these two schools i know teach the traditional way but also modernized with the times and cross train in different styles.

tat mau wong - sf
buk sing choy lay fut - fremont - shane lacey is retired from competition for a long while but he's still pretty famous for "gong sau's" (challenges) in the kung fu community.
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i went to tat wongs cuz for a while i wantd to do kungfu. i think it was ONE of them...cuz he has mutliple schols right. i went to the kids class....i just wanna say iwasn't impress, even if it WAS a kids class...
 
Originally posted by allyne
blackbelt-

in the us- there's no weapons competition- but in phillipines they still have escrima competitions. the phillipino community is huge in the bay area- so you should check it out- i think you would really like it. real applicable.

kung fu weapons- you just run drills over n' over till it becomes a reflex just as you would run armbar or muay thai drills. and like true2kungfu said your not likely to have a spear or broadsword- but you don't need to . any stick of close to equivalent would do, whether it be a pool stick or car club - striking angles and disarm techniques still work the same.

personall, even though i had more years in traditional kung fu- like you i feel more natural sparring using muay thai techniques. but even then i still like to mix in choy lay fut (known for strikes coming down at 45 degrees)and it has always caught the other guy by surpised since they were only used to encountering karate, tkd, and muay thai techniques. and in the last 3 'real' fights i've gotten in to- I was able apply wing chun techniques (along w/ muay thai stuff), and i'm managed to kick ass and come home with my face still pretty. maybe it's (kung fu) is just not your thing- but i'm just saying the more arsenals you have (and doing it well) than the better off you are.
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Allyne, what kung fu is effective in weapons defense. Any website or pics where I can see the techniques or any schools I can check out in the bay area?
 
godsgift - i don't know of any websites sorry. but if you wanted to learn weapons- than i recommend learning kali or escrima over anything else- it's mainly stick and knife, which are common weapons. i haven't done that since high school to first/second year college so it's been awhile- so i'm don't remember which schools are still around. the system that makes the most sense to me is the cabales serrada system. pretty intuitive if you already learned other standup styles. keeps it real simple- 12 angles of striking, footworks is in triangles and you learn a bunch of disarms, learn to work with single stick, double stick and stick and dagger. if you just want to learn the very basics and get exposed to it- check the community centers in either daily city or union city (a few years ago they had a pretty good teacher but who knows if they still have that program), or even an escrima club at sf state university.<p>

blackbeltnow- yeah, i checked out tat wong school somewhere in the penninsula, and to be honest i wasn't that impressed either. but i did remember a few guys from there in a tournament who were pretty clean.
 
i'm actually training in the cabales serrada system and do agree that it makes "sense"...just trying to compare the kung fu style and what it has to offer
 
For the thousandt time - it is not the style/art ... it's the fighter's heart (hey .. it even rhymes :) ). I've got a friend, who's in the army special force, before that, he was a bouncer for some time. I whitnessed him kick shit out of 5 or 6 guys who wanted to bust his nuts, and he beat the shit out of them. He's a small guy, maybe around 160cm, weights around 100kg (not fat) and has a strike that could kill a bull. He hit every one of those guys just once, few broken jaws and concussions etc. You all won't believe ... he pracices KARATE (not kyokushinkai ... normal sports karate)... for years, has a brown belt for I don't know how long, just because he doesn't give a shit about belts. One thing ... he has expirience .. lots of it. What I tey to prove here is that in a streetfight, when everyone can do anything, the location could be anywhere (you could be attacked on the stairs ... not pretty to go down there, sitting in your car... pissing - holding your dick in your hand), so it's not about who's style is better, but who is a better fighter with more expirience, stamina, speed, strength, calmness ... No matter what most of you say, we all practice sports, some more controlled than others, but sports ... if it's a controlled enviroment, with a ring and a referee, rounds and rules - it's a sport. In streetfight there's no rules, everything can be used, from the keys to your car to poke somebody's eye out, to wrenches, baseball bats, bottles, chairs ... so grow up ... streetfighter is made in streetfights ... not in the ring (not that you don't have better chances if you do practice some kind of martial art). . Every art out there is effective, depending on the way it's trained, and on the fighter himself.
 
I mostly agree with !Xabu, belts don't mean anything about your fighting ability. The only way to test your skills is to actually fight. Experience is definetly one of the best teachers there is. All martial arts have credible aspects to them that all practitioners of martial arts should respect. But in some cases, the style does make the fighter better. In general, styles that are not as efficent as others, will lose to the more efficient style. This is the reason why Muay Thai fighters often win over other styles of fighting. Though this does not mean Muay Thai is the best striking style there is. The style is also disadvantaged when they do not train in a specific aspect of fighting. A martial artist that does not train to defend himself against takedowns or groundfighting will obviously lose to the brazilian jiu-jitsu stylist who trains to take a man down and submit him amidst being struck at. This is why the gracies dominated MMA in the early years, but in this current age, they do not hold up as well. Yes, martial arts do depend on the individual, thats why its important for the individual martial artist to go out into the wide world of martial arts, and seek out the techniques that are best suited for them. Don't be too confined in your school of kung-fu, karate, BJJ, or hybrid MMA fighting. There's always techniques out there that people have not seen. It's the continuous learning process in martial arts in general that make a genuine martial artist.
 
I agree with that ... Hypoteticaly the style vs. style could be measured if you could find two practicaly identical fighters (like genetic copies) that are equaly skilled, strong, fast etc., but both of them studied diferent art. As for real world, I agree with Gonchu.
 
htats not true. lets say there are two identical twin geniuses. one majored in math, the other in english. u give them a science test both will do well because they're geniuses? bull

a better analogy is..what if both want to do math for a living. one does claclus, the other does theorems. give them a big general math test, woudl they both do well? the only way u'll do well i this "all-math" test is if u studied for all the maths there are! jus tlike MMA, u can only do well if u do all of the good ones. u cnat go do a bad MA thats like gong to a bad college.
 
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