Media Kron Gracie: "BJJ is the biggest foundation for fighting"

[Towerworld]

You should. It's a lot of fun. We've been doing it every roll in my BJJ school for over a year now (randomly started one day) and I've learned a TON - every school should do it. I'm actually developing some success with a takedown game based around clinches followed up by trips; and a "pull guard into an instant sweep" game too that is kinda like a takedown from that perspective.

I would like to do more TD’s but my school never emphasized wrestling beyond like spending 10 minutes on it.

 

[mjfan23]

He said biggest not the best so calm down wrasslers.

 

[Doughie99]

Fat lot of good it did Kron in his last fight.

Try training wrestling and takedowns next time you arrogant twit.

 

[Regal Boy]

Training how to strike eyes with the speed and accuracy of a boxer's jab is superior to literally every single martial art that we see displayed in MMA or whatever. BJJ, boxing, muay thai, wrestling, all of it is shit in comparison.
I already posted the actual greatest martial art earlier in the thread.

 

[Mightymike1986]

never been in a street fight myself, but from observing the Street Coliseum forum maybe we're setting the bar too high for street fights. meaning it seems the majority of the time the fight is easily avoidable, one or both people are drunk and falling about, or the fighting is so sloppy that even person in decent shape who trains judo/bjj/ TKD/anything really would do just fine

I've been on both sides of that one. 1 was at a bar and had a guy stumble into me that was a lot larger than me on the dance floor, I just said "whoa, haha, watch it man." Then he got aggressive, I lit him up with a headbutt and and a 3 punch combo and he was done, little did I know he had a friend coming from the side to try and blind side me, another friend intercepted him with a bottle across the face lol. Another time, I was calling someone out who was making their girlfriend cry at a party (we were all drunk), and just wanted to speak to him outside, wasn't looking for a fight, well he sucker punched me and pounded my head into the sidewalk a few times. I don't know BJJ, but I don't think it would have helped either time lol. Street/Bar fights are a crapshoot, don't let your guard down, always be aware of the situation, after that it's basically going to be boxing....can you block a punch, take a punch, and throw a punch. I've never seen a guy go into a random fight with a kick, I'll definitely say that, normally if it is a tackle the fight gets broken up quickly as well.

 

[sb413197]

In a 1 vs multiple scenario you are fucked whatever you train.

True, to some extent. If there is a big enough skill gap you have at least a chance, but it can be chaotic and I wouldn't count on it from what I've seen (not that you ever can - street fighting is unsafe no matter who you are) - if someone gets behind you you're boned. I've seen videos of high level boxers taking on big groups of people and backpedaling while knocking out guy after guy coming after him while shuffling backwards.

 

[mkt]

i dont know about that
If both guys are around the same skill (which how would you even know) and the wrestler takes him down, once he hits the ground, the BJJ guy is most likely to do better cause BJJ is more so about what happens when the fight hits the ground

Wrestlers don't learn submission, sweeps etc. once it hits the ground the BJJ guy can do a whole variety of things that the wrestler hasn't been trained in.

If you're assuming a wrestler with zero BJJ or submission grappling, sure. If you're assuming a wrestler who's learned some BJJ and developed pretty good submission defense (which is almost every wrestler in MMA in the last 15 years) vs. a BJJ guy who's learned a similar amount of wrestling, the wrestler wins 8 or 9 times out of 10.

 

[Sturmgeshutz]

False, breathing and trigger control is the foundation of street fighting.

 

[welcometohavoc]

Was watching a MUNCHIES episode when I saw this talk about diet. What was more ALARMING was Gracies NAIVE quote.

"Jiu jitsu the biggest foundation for fighting, I think. I think if you don't know jiu jitsu you're going to have a hard time to get into a real fight with somebody because the fight is most likely going to end up on the ground at some point."

What ...?


If all you know is Jiu Jitsu and you're fighting in the streets you're going to get your ASS kicked. There is no GI, you're head will get blasted on the pavement, and you're going to be focused on catching a sub while your foe is going to PUNCH YOU in the face.

He's got an academy of followers believing this shit and probably going out in the world thinking they are invincible because people are eager and ready to let them pull guard.



Jiu Jitsu is one of those arts, like aikido, judo, taekwondo, that's complimentary to the foundation of WRESTLING and BOXING. The true arts that you need to learn in order to defend yourself. Gracie is giving out stupid advice that will get people killed.

Even in MMA, BJJ is still the best single discipline because without a modicum of submission defense, even the best wrestler is going to get subbed

How many wrestler vs. BJJ matches from the 90's do you have to see before you acknowledge this? Did Royce submitting Dan "I weight over 100 lbs more than Royce" Severn not do it for you?

 

[welcometohavoc]

If you're assuming a wrestler with zero BJJ or submission grappling, sure. If you're assuming a wrestler who's learned some BJJ and developed pretty good submission defense (which is almost every wrestler in MMA in the last 15 years) vs. a BJJ guy who's learned a similar amount of wrestling, the wrestler wins 8 or 9 times out of 10.

Here is the final absolute conclusion

A wrestler with zero BJJ/sub training will lose to a BJJ guy with zero wrestling training 9/10 times

 

[Doughie99]

Here is the final absolute conclusion

A wrestler with zero BJJ/sub training will lose to a BJJ guy with zero wrestling training 9/10 times

Probably true.

But none of that helped Kron when he lost to Cub Swanson. He should just man up and own the loss instead of bitching that he won that fight.

 

[welcometohavoc]

Probably true.

But none of that helped Kron when he lost to Cub Swanson. He should just man up and own the loss instead of bitching that he won that fight.

Probably because Cub is a well rounded, seasoned veteran who has been in there with some of the best fighters of this generation.

Oh and he's also a black belt in BJJ

 

[mkt]

Here is the final absolute conclusion

A wrestler with zero BJJ/sub training will lose to a BJJ guy with zero wrestling training 9/10 times

Which has zero relevance in modern MMA. Even in the 90s, wrestlers like Severn and Frye already had a judo background while others (like Don Frye) learned enough submission defense to protect themselves. Look what Frye did to BJJ black belt Amaury Bitetti all the way back in 1996. Hint: Frye didn't get swept or submitted, and Bitetti got destroyed.

Another problem with your "absolute" statement is you assume the fight will hit the ground. If both guys are untrained strikers but the wrestler is bigger, stronger and more athletic (as is often the case), he could simply stuff the BJJ guy's TDs and beat him up standing. That's certainly happened many times before.

 

[suhdude]

Even in MMA, BJJ is still the best single discipline because without a modicum of submission defense, even the best wrestler is going to get subbed

How many wrestler vs. BJJ matches from the 90's do you have to see before you acknowledge this? Did Royce submitting Dan "I weight over 100 lbs more than Royce" Severn not do it for you?

Roided no cardio man trashes a gracie...

 

[mkt]

Probably because Cub is a well rounded, seasoned veteran who has been in there with some of the best fighters of this generation.

Oh and he's also a black belt in BJJ

He's also lost his last 4 fights in a row and is WAY past his prime. It's funny how the BJJ/Gracie drones are acting like Cub is a Top 3 FW now that he beat their hero.

 

[blaseblah]

BJJ is the best self defense martial art you can learn against one attacker. If multiple people attack I'd much rather use boxing because you don't want to go to the ground in that scenario.

The reason BJJ specialists struggle in modern MMA is because everyone trains it. Being well-rounded >>> being a specialist.

 

[blaseblah]

He's also lost his last 4 fights in a row and is WAY past his prime. It's funny how the BJJ/Gracie drones are acting like Cub is a Top 3 FW now that he beat their hero.

Cub was a seasoned vet facing an inexperienced guy with 5 professional fights. That is what should you should take away from that fight, not derp derp bjj sux.

 

[Chagaev]

You're not of you are a better grappler. You want the fight on the ground vs one on one.

You have diminished awareness of your surroundings, visual field and reaction time on the ground. You better pray that things stay one on one, which you have no control over it or even the certainty that you assessed things correctly from the start.

You can win on the ground, but you're taking a gamble by putting all your eggs in a basket and not even being able to run if things go south. I guess for an unathletic dude that started sports late in his life this is his only choice, but it's not ideal for the rest.

 

[kenetics]

You have diminished awareness of your surroundings, visual field and reaction time on the ground. You better pray that things stay one on one, which you have no control over it or even the certainty that you assessed things correctly from the start.

You can win on the ground, but you're taking a gamble by putting all your eggs in a basket and not even being able to run if things go south. I guess for an unathletic dude that started sports late in his life this is his only choice, but it's not ideal for the rest.

Yes. I meant only for one on one encounters. Multiple attackers, bjj is useless, and I'm a black belt in BJJ telling you this.

 

[mkt]

Cub was a seasoned vet facing an inexperienced guy with 5 professional fights. That is what should you should take away from that fight, not derp derp bjj sux.

Ok, poor baby Kron then. He lost to a guy with 4 straight losses in his 6th fight while "that dumb wrestler Brock Lesnar" fought Mir, Herring, Couture and Mir again in his first 5 fights...yes, 3 former HW champs in his first 5 fights. Imagine if he'd spent his youth learning BJJ instead!

For the record, Kron beat Kawajiri back in 2016, just months after Kawajiri had a very competitive fight in the UFC with Cub...so this was in no way a mismatch and the "super seasoned veteran Cub" narrative only started after Kron lost.